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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987 11-17 PRMMINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION 0 FOR THE CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER IN THE COUNTY OF HENNEPIN AND THE STATE OF MINNESOTA REGULAR SESSION NOVEMBER 17, 1987 CITY HALL CALL TO ORDER Chairman Sorenson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. ROLL CALL Chairman Sorenson, Commissioners Burnes, Manson, and Krefting. Also present were Councilmember Bill Hawes, Director of Recreation Arnie Mavis, and Recording Secretary Geralyn Barone. Commissioners Peterson, Skeels, and Propst were excused from this evening's meeting. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - OCTOBER 27. 1987 Chairman Sorenson tabled the approval of the minutes of the October 27, 1987, park and recreation commission meeting to the next meeting. RESOLUTION/BYLAWS The recording secretary said the city council is in the process of reviewing the proposed amendment to the advisory commission bylaws recommended by the park and recreation commission. The city council will be considering a resolution approving the park and recreation commission's recommendation. REVIEW OF GENERAL ORDINANCES RELATED DIRECTLY TO PARKS Chairman Sorenson said a complete recommendation will not be made to the city council regarding changes to the ordinance until more commissioners are present at a meeting. The recording secretary reviewed discussions she had with the city attorney and the police chief regarding curfew in the parks. Chairman Sorenson noted he feels there are problems with enforcement of the ordinance, and the director of recreation said he feels the ordinance is working fine as it is and the curfew is serving its purpose. In addition, the City does not have enough resources to catch every violator. Chairman Sorenson said he does not want to be subject to violating the law and asked what is so magic about the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. for a curfew. The director of recreation said traditionally, these are the average hours of the onset of darkness and daylight. He said historically, problems in the parks have been between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. Chairman Sorenson said 6 a.m. seems unrealistic. Commissioner Krefting said he works nights and is one of the few people who is using the trail system after curfew to walk his dog. Chairman Sorenson said he feels there is arbitrary and capricious enforcement of the laws. • 11-17-87 -1- Councilmember Hawes asked what the related law in the city of Minneapolis is, and the director of recreation said it is about the same as Brooklyn Center's ordinance. Chairman Sorenson suggested a curfew law is not needed because if other laws are being violated, the person could be prosecuted on these rather than the curfew violation. The director of recreation pointed out that sometimes there is potential for problems and there may not be any violations other than the curfew violation. Chairman Sorenson pointed out this is a problem with our society and people are continuously ignoring the laws. Councilmember Hawes asked Chairman Sorenson what hours he would suggest for curfew. Chairman Sorenson said there should be a way to accommodate joggers and those on the second shift out walking late. He is not sure how to do this but feels 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. is unrealistic. He suggested it may be possible to exempt trailways from the curfew. Councilmember Hawes suggested the neighbors living around the parks would have a problem with people using the parks after curfew. Chairman Sorenson said if everyone cannot be accommodated, perhaps the trails in the parks could be exempted from curfew. The director of recreation asked what would happen with Evergreen Park. Councilmember Hawes asked Commissioner Manson how he would feel about the use of parks after curfew. Commissioner Manson said he does not live close enough to know if it would bother him. There was discussion on what property belongs to Evergreen School and that which belongs to Evergreen Park. Chairman Sorenson said the answer may be to do things differently in different parks. The director of recreation suggested the neighbors living around all the parks should be consulted if a change is to be made. Commissioner Krefting said the ordinance should recognize there are many people working various shifts who want to use the parks. Councilmember Hawes said he is certain there are many legitimate people wanting to use the parks, but there are the spoilers who are hurting it for others; therefore, he is reluctant to change the current ordinance. The director of recreation said no matter which way you go, someone will be hurt and he feels more comfortable with the existing system. Chairman Sorenson raised objection to this, and suggested exempting Central Park and the trailway system from the curfew. Councilmember Hawes said people who live along the trailway system would be upset by this. The commission discussed further the off-hours use of the parks and park programs. Chairman Sorenson asked the director of recreation to provide information on which parks have blaektopped trailways through them. Councilmember Hawes said he is reluctant to make exemptions on trailways because of the neighbors. Commissioner Burnes asked if there is a curfew for juveniles, and the director of recreation responded affirmatively, noting 18 to 20 year olds are the ones causing the problems. Commissioner Burnes suggested the juvenile curfew be extended to older ages and then eliminate the park curfew altogether. 11-17-87 -2- Councilmember Hawes said another area of concern is related to residents of the Bill Kelly House using the parks. He said if people have mental problems to begin with and are loitering in the park, not necessarily causing problems, he would have concern about this if the curfew is changed. He said perhaps the ordinance needs changing, but the commission should be very careful about any changes it makes. The commission proceeded to discuss other laws that are easily broken and difficult to enforce, such as smoking by minors and traffic violations. Chairman Sorenson asked the commission to think of some ideas which would accommodate people yet keep control over the situation, and these ideas will be discussed at the next commission meeting. Commissioner Krefting asked if residents of the Bill Kelly House have their own curfew, and Councilmember Hawes responded affirmatively, noting there is only one person to supervise 23 people. Commissioner Burnes asked what problems the residents there have, and Councilmember Hawes said they are mentally ill with some residents who are also dealing with chemical dependency. The commission discussed the Brookdale Ten Apartments and problems associated with them. Chairman Sorenson tabled further discussion regarding the curfew in the parks to the next commission meeting. Councilmember Hawes said commissioners should formulate ideas for the next meeting to discuss and make a decision on it. He suggested it may be helpful to have a public hearing to air some of the views. . Commissioner Burnes said meetings could be held in each park service area to obtain input from residents. The director of recreation said this is a good idea, but he is concerned that not many people would attend the meetings. Chairman Sorenson proceeded to discuss the portion of the parks ordinance related to alcohol in the parks. He noted he wants to accommodate more people, in addition to civic organizations, and he wants to allow private groups to consume alcohol in the parks. He pointed out this may create administrative problems. There was discussion on the problems associated with the suggestion of issuing permits to softball teams for consuming alcohol in the parks. Commissioner Burnes said personally, he likes to drink beer, but the liability of the City and associated problems causes him to prefer the ordinance the way it is. Councilmember Hawes pointed out the curfew ties in with this. The director of recreation pointed out it is nicer to umpire softball games if beer is not allowed. Chairman Sorenson said this topic has already been discussed quite well and will be further reviewed at the next meeting. The commission proceeded to discuss other changes suggested at the last commission meeting. The director of recreation said he likes the idea of permitting grills in the parks. Commissioner Krefting asked what constitutes a portable grill, because he has seen people use 55 gallon drums as grills. The director of recreation said it depends on the size of the group. 11-17-87 -3- Councilmember Hawes said he does not have a problem with something this size if it is properly removed. Chairman Sorenson said this will be reviewed further for a final recommendation at the next commission meeting. FACILITY NEEDS The director of recreation reported on the activities sponsored by the park and recreation department in 1987 and proceeded to review the report in detail. He reviewed each of the activities and responded to questions about the specific activities. Chairman Sorenson asked what sort of facility would be needed to further meet the programming needs, and the director of recreation said something like a fieldhouse with a running track and basketball courts is desirable. Councilmember Hawes asked if there will be facilities available at the Earle Brown farm. The director of recreation said the recreation department hopes to have its annual bazaar there and also use the hippodrome for Entertainment in the Parks activities. Councilmember Hawes asked if there is a location for the City to develop some sort of facility, and the director of recreation said there is an area across from Evergreen Park that has potential for this use. Chairman Sorenson asked the director of recreation to prepare a proposal on the uses of a new facility, including documentation and justification of it. The director of recreation said he will proceed to work on this. Councilmember Hawes pointed out that cost should be a consideration. The director of recreation said in time, there may be revenues available from the golf course. Commissioner Peterson entered the meeting at 8:54 p.m. Chairman Sorenson asked if user fees would be charged at a new facility, and the director of recreation said there would be some fees charged. He added with such a facility available, some of the local schools may be made more available to neighborhood group activities. Chairman Sorenson said people would be willing to pay a small fee for the use of a facility. Commissioner Manson asked if a fieldhouse would include an ice rink. The director of recreation said it would not, especially since there are facilities already located in this area. Councilmember Hawes noted this could be added at a later date if necessary. The director of recreation said the city of Brooklyn Park has an ice rink and we would have to compete with them. There was discussion on the ice arena and swimming pool facilities in the metropolitan area. Commissioner Krefting asked if there was a request to flood a skating rink at Freeway Park last year, and the director of recreation responded affirmatively. COMMISSION PLAN OF ACTION Chairman Sorenson tabled discussion of this item to the next commission meeting. 0 11-17-87 -4- OTHER BUSINESS There was a motion by Commissioner Commissioner Manson to cancel the recreation commission meeting and to scheduled commission meeting in January • Peterson and seconded by December 1987 park and hold the next regularly 1988. The motion passed. Councilmember Hawes asked if there is any short course of action for expansion of facilities. The director of recreation said there is nothing in the short term, and attempts are first being made to get the golf course underway before looking at the facilities. Councilmember Hawes suggested other alternatives besides a fieldhouse be investigated. Chairman Sorenson asked what other activities are available beyond softball for middle- aged people. The director of recreation said tennis and golf are activities for any age; he suggested the commission may consider putting a bubble over the tennis courts in Central Park. He added swimming is also an activity for those of any age. Councilmember Hawes said a facility at the Earle Brown farm for crafts or a wood shop may be an idea. Commissioner Peterson asked if the park and recreation department wants to subsidize the facility, and the director of recreation said it may have to do so. Chairman Sorenson said the idea of an auto shop or woodworking area is good, but he expressed concern over what the liability would be for the City. Commissioner Peterson said the Earle Brown farm committee is considering all options and if the commission has any suggestions, now is the time to discuss them. He said preliminary studies show the hippodrome and the horse barns will draw approximately $155,000 in income and it will take $400,000 to maintain the entire Earle Brown farm complex. He said ideas are all preliminary, so if the commission has certain suggestions that can pay for themselves, the committee is open to them. Chairman Sorenson said the next meeting of the park and recreation commission will be scheduled for January 19, 1988. ADJOURNMENT There was a motion by Commissioner Peterson and seconded by Commissioner Burnes to adjourn the meeting. The motion passed. The Brooklyn Center park and recreation commission adjourned at 9:20 p.m. Chairman • 11-17-87 -5-