HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987 11-17 PRMMINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
0 FOR THE CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER IN THE COUNTY OF HENNEPIN
AND THE STATE OF MINNESOTA
REGULAR SESSION
NOVEMBER 17, 1987
CITY HALL
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Sorenson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL
Chairman Sorenson, Commissioners Burnes, Manson, and Krefting.
Also present were Councilmember Bill Hawes, Director of
Recreation Arnie Mavis, and Recording Secretary Geralyn Barone.
Commissioners Peterson, Skeels, and Propst were excused from this
evening's meeting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - OCTOBER 27. 1987
Chairman Sorenson tabled the approval of the minutes of the
October 27, 1987, park and recreation commission meeting to the
next meeting.
RESOLUTION/BYLAWS
The recording secretary said the city council is in the process
of reviewing the proposed amendment to the advisory commission
bylaws recommended by the park and recreation commission. The
city council will be considering a resolution approving the park
and recreation commission's recommendation.
REVIEW OF GENERAL ORDINANCES RELATED DIRECTLY TO PARKS
Chairman Sorenson said a complete recommendation will not be made
to the city council regarding changes to the ordinance until more
commissioners are present at a meeting. The recording secretary
reviewed discussions she had with the city attorney and the
police chief regarding curfew in the parks. Chairman Sorenson
noted he feels there are problems with enforcement of the
ordinance, and the director of recreation said he feels the
ordinance is working fine as it is and the curfew is serving its
purpose. In addition, the City does not have enough resources to
catch every violator. Chairman Sorenson said he does not want to
be subject to violating the law and asked what is so magic about
the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. for a curfew. The director of
recreation said traditionally, these are the average hours of the
onset of darkness and daylight. He said historically, problems
in the parks have been between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m.
Chairman Sorenson said 6 a.m. seems unrealistic. Commissioner
Krefting said he works nights and is one of the few people who is
using the trail system after curfew to walk his dog. Chairman
Sorenson said he feels there is arbitrary and capricious
enforcement of the laws.
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Councilmember Hawes asked what the related law in the city of
Minneapolis is, and the director of recreation said it is about
the same as Brooklyn Center's ordinance. Chairman Sorenson
suggested a curfew law is not needed because if other laws are
being violated, the person could be prosecuted on these rather
than the curfew violation. The director of recreation pointed
out that sometimes there is potential for problems and there may
not be any violations other than the curfew violation. Chairman
Sorenson pointed out this is a problem with our society and
people are continuously ignoring the laws. Councilmember Hawes
asked Chairman Sorenson what hours he would suggest for curfew.
Chairman Sorenson said there should be a way to accommodate
joggers and those on the second shift out walking late. He is
not sure how to do this but feels 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. is
unrealistic. He suggested it may be possible to exempt trailways
from the curfew. Councilmember Hawes suggested the neighbors
living around the parks would have a problem with people using
the parks after curfew. Chairman Sorenson said if everyone
cannot be accommodated, perhaps the trails in the parks could be
exempted from curfew. The director of recreation asked what
would happen with Evergreen Park. Councilmember Hawes asked
Commissioner Manson how he would feel about the use of parks
after curfew. Commissioner Manson said he does not live close
enough to know if it would bother him. There was discussion on
what property belongs to Evergreen School and that which belongs
to Evergreen Park.
Chairman Sorenson said the answer may be to do things differently
in different parks. The director of recreation suggested the
neighbors living around all the parks should be consulted if a
change is to be made. Commissioner Krefting said the ordinance
should recognize there are many people working various shifts who
want to use the parks. Councilmember Hawes said he is certain
there are many legitimate people wanting to use the parks, but
there are the spoilers who are hurting it for others; therefore,
he is reluctant to change the current ordinance. The director of
recreation said no matter which way you go, someone will be hurt
and he feels more comfortable with the existing system. Chairman
Sorenson raised objection to this, and suggested exempting
Central Park and the trailway system from the curfew.
Councilmember Hawes said people who live along the trailway
system would be upset by this. The commission discussed further
the off-hours use of the parks and park programs.
Chairman Sorenson asked the director of recreation to provide
information on which parks have blaektopped trailways through
them. Councilmember Hawes said he is reluctant to make
exemptions on trailways because of the neighbors.
Commissioner Burnes asked if there is a curfew for juveniles, and
the director of recreation responded affirmatively, noting 18 to
20 year olds are the ones causing the problems. Commissioner
Burnes suggested the juvenile curfew be extended to older ages
and then eliminate the park curfew altogether.
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Councilmember Hawes said another area of concern is related to
residents of the Bill Kelly House using the parks. He said if
people have mental problems to begin with and are loitering in
the park, not necessarily causing problems, he would have concern
about this if the curfew is changed. He said perhaps the
ordinance needs changing, but the commission should be very
careful about any changes it makes. The commission proceeded to
discuss other laws that are easily broken and difficult to
enforce, such as smoking by minors and traffic violations.
Chairman Sorenson asked the commission to think of some ideas
which would accommodate people yet keep control over the
situation, and these ideas will be discussed at the next
commission meeting. Commissioner Krefting asked if residents of
the Bill Kelly House have their own curfew, and Councilmember
Hawes responded affirmatively, noting there is only one person to
supervise 23 people. Commissioner Burnes asked what problems the
residents there have, and Councilmember Hawes said they are
mentally ill with some residents who are also dealing with
chemical dependency. The commission discussed the Brookdale Ten
Apartments and problems associated with them.
Chairman Sorenson tabled further discussion regarding the curfew
in the parks to the next commission meeting. Councilmember Hawes
said commissioners should formulate ideas for the next meeting to
discuss and make a decision on it. He suggested it may be
helpful to have a public hearing to air some of the views.
. Commissioner Burnes said meetings could be held in each park
service area to obtain input from residents. The director of
recreation said this is a good idea, but he is concerned that not
many people would attend the meetings.
Chairman Sorenson proceeded to discuss the portion of the parks
ordinance related to alcohol in the parks. He noted he wants to
accommodate more people, in addition to civic organizations, and
he wants to allow private groups to consume alcohol in the parks.
He pointed out this may create administrative problems. There
was discussion on the problems associated with the suggestion of
issuing permits to softball teams for consuming alcohol in the
parks. Commissioner Burnes said personally, he likes to drink
beer, but the liability of the City and associated problems
causes him to prefer the ordinance the way it is. Councilmember
Hawes pointed out the curfew ties in with this. The director of
recreation pointed out it is nicer to umpire softball games if
beer is not allowed.
Chairman Sorenson said this topic has already been discussed
quite well and will be further reviewed at the next meeting. The
commission proceeded to discuss other changes suggested at the
last commission meeting. The director of recreation said he
likes the idea of permitting grills in the parks. Commissioner
Krefting asked what constitutes a portable grill, because he has
seen people use 55 gallon drums as grills. The director of
recreation said it depends on the size of the group.
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Councilmember Hawes said he does not have a problem with
something this size if it is properly removed. Chairman Sorenson
said this will be reviewed further for a final recommendation at
the next commission meeting.
FACILITY NEEDS
The director of recreation reported on the activities sponsored
by the park and recreation department in 1987 and proceeded to
review the report in detail. He reviewed each of the activities
and responded to questions about the specific activities.
Chairman Sorenson asked what sort of facility would be needed to
further meet the programming needs, and the director of
recreation said something like a fieldhouse with a running track
and basketball courts is desirable. Councilmember Hawes asked if
there will be facilities available at the Earle Brown farm. The
director of recreation said the recreation department hopes to
have its annual bazaar there and also use the hippodrome for
Entertainment in the Parks activities. Councilmember Hawes asked
if there is a location for the City to develop some sort of
facility, and the director of recreation said there is an area
across from Evergreen Park that has potential for this use.
Chairman Sorenson asked the director of recreation to prepare a
proposal on the uses of a new facility, including documentation
and justification of it. The director of recreation said he will
proceed to work on this. Councilmember Hawes pointed out that
cost should be a consideration. The director of recreation said
in time, there may be revenues available from the golf course.
Commissioner Peterson entered the meeting at 8:54 p.m.
Chairman Sorenson asked if user fees would be charged at a new
facility, and the director of recreation said there would be some
fees charged. He added with such a facility available, some of
the local schools may be made more available to neighborhood
group activities. Chairman Sorenson said people would be willing
to pay a small fee for the use of a facility. Commissioner
Manson asked if a fieldhouse would include an ice rink. The
director of recreation said it would not, especially since there
are facilities already located in this area. Councilmember Hawes
noted this could be added at a later date if necessary. The
director of recreation said the city of Brooklyn Park has an ice
rink and we would have to compete with them. There was
discussion on the ice arena and swimming pool facilities in the
metropolitan area.
Commissioner Krefting asked if there was a request to flood a
skating rink at Freeway Park last year, and the director of
recreation responded affirmatively.
COMMISSION PLAN OF ACTION
Chairman Sorenson tabled discussion of this item to the next
commission meeting. 0
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OTHER BUSINESS
There was a motion by Commissioner
Commissioner Manson to cancel the
recreation commission meeting and to
scheduled commission meeting in January
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Peterson and seconded by
December 1987 park and
hold the next regularly
1988. The motion passed.
Councilmember Hawes asked if there is any short course of action
for expansion of facilities. The director of recreation said
there is nothing in the short term, and attempts are first being
made to get the golf course underway before looking at the
facilities. Councilmember Hawes suggested other alternatives
besides a fieldhouse be investigated. Chairman Sorenson asked
what other activities are available beyond softball for middle-
aged people. The director of recreation said tennis and golf are
activities for any age; he suggested the commission may consider
putting a bubble over the tennis courts in Central Park. He
added swimming is also an activity for those of any age.
Councilmember Hawes said a facility at the Earle Brown farm for
crafts or a wood shop may be an idea. Commissioner Peterson
asked if the park and recreation department wants to subsidize
the facility, and the director of recreation said it may have to
do so. Chairman Sorenson said the idea of an auto shop or
woodworking area is good, but he expressed concern over what the
liability would be for the City. Commissioner Peterson said the
Earle Brown farm committee is considering all options and if the
commission has any suggestions, now is the time to discuss them.
He said preliminary studies show the hippodrome and the horse
barns will draw approximately $155,000 in income and it will take
$400,000 to maintain the entire Earle Brown farm complex. He
said ideas are all preliminary, so if the commission has certain
suggestions that can pay for themselves, the committee is open to
them.
Chairman Sorenson said the next meeting of the park and
recreation commission will be scheduled for January 19, 1988.
ADJOURNMENT
There was a motion by Commissioner Peterson and seconded by
Commissioner Burnes to adjourn the meeting. The motion passed.
The Brooklyn Center park and recreation commission adjourned at
9:20 p.m.
Chairman
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