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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987 10-27 PRMMINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION FOR THE CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER IN THE COUNTY OF HENNEPIN AND THE STATE OF MINNESOTA REGULAR SESSION OCTOBER 27, 1987 CITY HALL CALL TO ORDER Chairman Sorenson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. ROLL CALL Chairman Sorenson, Commissioners Peterson, Propst, Burnes, and Skeels. Also present were Councilmember Bill Hawes, Director of Recreation Arnie Mavis, and Recording Secretary Geralyn Barone. Commissioners Manson and Krefting were excused from this evening's meeting. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 15, 1987 There was a motion by Commissioner Burnes and seconded by Commissioner Peterson to approve the minutes of the September 15, 1987, Park and Recreation Commission meeting. The motion passed. FACILITY NEEDS Chairman Sorenson tabled this item to the next Park and Recreation commission meeting. RESOLUTION/ BYLAWS Chairman Sorenson referred the commission to article VII regarding authorization to speak on behalf of the commission. Commissioner Peterson said there is too much ambiguity in this article. Chairman Sorenson said his problem with this article is that the commission must first consider and approve any statements, so in essence, commissioners are prohibited from speaking. Commissioner Propst asked if anyone was able to prepare an alternative to this article, and no one responded. Councilmember Hawes suggested Chairman Sorenson may be reading too much into the article. Chairman Sorenson responded saying the article says in plain English that statements must be approved. Councilmember Hawes said no one will condemn a commissioner for speaking on behalf of the commission, and the intent in the article is clear. Chairman Sorenson agreed the intent is clear, but the wording does not say this. Commissioner Propst asked if Chairman Sorenson wants members to feel free to express their individual opinions. Chairman Sorenson said members have this right regardless. What bothers him is any statement must be approved by the commission. There was some discussion on alternative language for the article. Commissioner Burnes suggested the following language "No member shall speak on behalf of the commission unless the commission has first discussed the subject and said speaker is communicating the ideas or issues 10-27-87 -1- agreed to by the commission." Commissioner Skeels noted th original intent of the bylaws was to allow members to spew publicly by giving the position of the commission. Commissioner Propst suggested the proposed language may be too restrictive. There was a motion by Commissioner Peterson and seconded by Commissioner Skeels to recommend to the city council an amendment to article VII of the advisory commission bylaws as suggested by commissioner Burnes. The motion passed unanimously. The Recording Secretary said this item will appear on the November 9, 1987, city council agenda. REVIEW OF GENERAL ORDINANCES RELATED DIRECTLY TO PARKS Chairman Sorenson said he feels the ordinance related to beer and alcohol in the parks is too restrictive. The Director of Recreation said he feels there are no problems now and the ordinance is working well. Chairman Sorenson said because there have been a few abuses, everyone should not be restricted. He pointed out a problem with the current ordinance, which says the director of parks and recreation issues permits, when in fact there is no longer a director of parks and recreation. Commissioner Propst asked who the permits are issued to now, and the Director of Recreation said civic groups which meet certain qualifications are eligible to obtain permits. Commissioner Propst said there should not be alcohol in the parks because it is not a good environment for a park. He feels no one should be able to get a permit and would be happy if the police enforced the ordinance as it currently0 exists. Commissioner Peterson said he does not feel it is practical to have a family obtain a permit to have beer in the park. He said he cannot see why there should be a requirement except for organized groups. Commissioner Propst said there can be problems with beer in the parks. Chairman Sorenson said he would like others besides civic groups to be -able to get permits, and he would go along with a compromise of issuing permits to some groups. Commissioner Skeels wondered if the current ordinance is loosened, under what basis could the City stop someone from obtaining a permit; he feels it would be an administrative nightmare for the recreation department to administer this. The Director of Recreation said someone would have to be hired just to handle all the issuance of permits. Commissioner Skeels said he would not have a problem with prohibiting alcohol in the parks altogether with no permits issued. Commissioner Skeels also suggested if the police department is involved in monitoring and controlling certain events, a permit for alcohol may be acceptable. Chairman Sorenson said he prefers the process to allow groups to obtain permits. Commissioner Propst said he sees problems with this because it would be chaos. He prefers to limit access of beer to situations where licenses have been issued and the events are controlled by the police. 10-27-87 -2- • Commissioner Burnes asked if a permit system were expanded, what increased liabilities would the City have. Councilmember Hawes said there would definitely be increased liability for the City. The Director of Recreation said the City may have to pay more for its insurance premiums. Commissioner Burnes said personally he would like to see beer in the parks but limit the permits to perhaps one a year for each applicant. The Director of Recreation said there may be problems associated with this because individual members of a softball team could take turns obtaining a permit. Commissioner Peterson said it is tradition to have beer after softball games, but Commissioner Skeels said this does not occur in Brooklyn Center anymore. The Director of Recreation pointed out that plain clothes officers have been checking softball games, and ball players do get kicked out of the league if caught drinking. Commissioner Burnes said if a group is not causing a ruckus, the police department would not bother them {even if people were drinking. Commissioner Skeels said over the past few years, most softball players will go to someone's house to drink beer after a game rather than drink in the park. Commissioner Peterson asked what the policy is in Minneapolis, and the Director of Recreation said its permit system is a little more liberal than Brooklyn Center's. Councilmember Hawes pointed out the liability insurance issue is a problem that did not exist years ago. Commissioner Propst said he would feel comfortable if alcohol were prohibited completely from the parks. Commissioner Peterson noted people can find other places to drink beer if they really want to do so. Councilmember Hawes said if beer is allowed in the parks, it will not be the only alcoholic beverage consumed and people will go beyond what is allowed by ordinance. Chairman Sorenson disagreed with this statement. Councilmember Hawes said he feels the ordinance is super the way it is and does not think people have to drink beer in parks. Chairman Sorenson reviewed the memorandum which discussed the opinions of people who were around at the time the ordinance passed, and he said he would like to see the permit system expanded to allow individuals to drink beer in the parks. Counciimember Hawes reviewed the situation of the time when the ordinance was first passed, and Chairman Sorenson said that was a different time period when there were no controls. After further discussion, Chairman Sorenson suggested this section of the ordinance be tabled for further discussion at the next meeting. With regard to section 13-107 of the ordinance, Chairman Sorenson suggested changing the "director of parks and recreation" to some other title because the position no longer exists. There was a motion by Commissioner Skeels and seconded by Commissioner Peterson to change the "director of parks and recreation" to the "director of recreation" in section 13-107. The motion passed. 0 10-27-87 -3- With regard to section 13-108, Chairman Sorenson asked if the park and recreation department posts any signs. The Director o* Recreation said the department does not; the flyers are distributed by hand. Commissioner Skeels asked what open space refers to, and Chairman Sorenson said the island on Twin Lake and the area around Palmer Lake is considered open space. There was a motion by Commissioner Burnes and seconded by Commissioner Peterson to add the following phrase to the end of section 13-108: " . . . without the written permission of the director of recreation." The motion passed. There was a motion by Commissioner Skeels and seconded by commissioner Burnes to change the "director of parks and recreation" to the "director of recreation" in 13-109. The motion passed. With regard to section 13-110, Chairman Sorenson asked if there are any programs in the parks where camping is done, and the Director of Recreation said the only time would be when the swimming meet is held here in the summer. There was a motion by Commissioner Propst and seconded by Commissioner Burnes to add the following statement to the end of section 13-110: if . . without the written permission of the director of recreation." The motion passed. With regard to section 13-111, Chairman Sorenson asked what the concern is over allowing golfing in the parks, and the Director of Recreation said if allowed, there would be a problem with the grass getting torn and ripped. Commissioner Propst asked if there is any place for such activity in the City that could be set aside, and Chairman Sorenson pointed out the new golf course will be a great practice area. RECESS There was a motion by commissioner Skeels and seconded by commissioner Peterson to recess the Park and Recreation commission meeting at 8:31 p.m. The motion passed. The commission reconvened at 8:36 p.m. REVIEW OF GENERAL ORDINANCES RELATED DIRECTLY TO PARKS (CONTINUED) The commission discussed section 13-113 regarding control of fires. Chairman Sorenson said the ordinance does prohibit bringing in grills, and Councilmember Hawes said this may need clarification. Chairman Sorenson pointed out that if grills are allowed, a place is needed to dispose of charcoal. The Director of Recreation said there are very few permanent grills in the parks. Councilmember Hawes expressed concern about dumping hot coals in the parks. The Director of Recreation suggested allowing grills only if the hot coals are properly disposed, and chairman Sorenson said this would be difficult to monitor. Commissioner Skeels asked if there would be any feasible way to provide a place for the coals to be disposed, and Commissioner Peterson said although this may be possible, it may not be practical. Commissioner Burnes said people may throw garbage in with the coals and create a hazard. 10-27-87 -4- Commissioner Propst said he wants to allow people to picnic in the park, but would like to leave the ordinance as it is because of the problems associated with the coals. Councilmember Hawes suggested the grills either be permitted or prohibited. There was a motion by Commissioner Peterson and seconded by Commissioner Skeels to change the wording of section 13-113 to read as follows "No person shall ignite a fire in any park or open space except in places provided for such purposes or in portable grills. Persons igniting a fire shall completely extinguish such fire prior to departing from the park or open space." The motion passed. with regard to section 13-115, Chairman Sorenson said if glass beverage containers are banned in the park, then beer bottles should also be prohibited. There was a motion by Commissioner Skeels and seconded by Commissioner Propst to delete the following section from section 13-115: " . . . except under permit issued by the Director of Parks and Recreation under section 13-103 hereof." The motion passed. In reviewing section 13-117, Commissioner Propst asked where people would be imprisoned if they violate this ordinance, and the Director of Recreation said most likely it would be the Hennepin County workhouse. There was discussion by the commission of the penalties. There was a motion by Commissioner Propst and seconded by Commissioner Peterson to change section 13-117 from " . . any person violating the provisions . . . " to " . . any person violating any provision . . . it The motion passed. With regard to section 13-102, Chairman Sorenson noted that softball games go on past 10 p.m., and the Director of Recreation said these are considered to be official City business. Commissioner Burnes said because joggers may be on the trails before +6 a.m., the commission may want to change the park hours in the ordinance from 10 p.m. - 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. - 5 a.m. There was some discussion on the curfew and possible amendments to the ordinance. Commissioner Propst suggested changing the language to allow any recreational activity as authorized by the City Manager, and Chairman Sorenson said this may be too broad. Commissioner Peterson asked how the existing ordinance is working so far, and the Director of Recreation said there have been no problems. Chairman Sorenson suggested this section as well as section 13-103 be further discussed at the next commission meeting. The Recording Secretary will prepare a draft ordinance amendment including the changes suggested this evening to be further reviewed at the next meeting. OTHER BUSINESS The Recording Secretary said the City Manager, Director of Recreation, and a representative of the Little League met to discuss the problems associated with Lions Park and the Little League field. The Recording Secretary said the proposal is to restrict the ages of those using the baseball fields and to 0 10-27-87 -5- incorporate a planting plan along the roadway. Commissioner said three trees have already been planted, which appreciative of, but he would like to see more. Propst he i Commissioner Burnes said there may be a problem with limiting the age of those using the baseball fields because parents may want to practice with their children and would be prohibited from doing so if there were age restrictions. Commissioner Propst noted at the last meeting he was not complaining about baseballs landing in his yard only, but they are also landing in the street. He added it would be difficult to prohibit certain age groups from using the fields. Commissioner Peterson said new Commissioner Burnes may not fully understand the agreement the City made with the Little League regarding this area and the golf course, so the Director of Recreation proceeded to review the details of the agreement between the City and the Little League. This followed by discussion of the problems associated with setting an age limit for use of the fields. Commissioner Propst said the Little League may want to install a higher fence at the field. The Recording Secretary reviewed the Administrative Traffic Committee action regarding the request for a "Stop" sign in this area. She noted there is not sufficient traffic to warrant installation of a sign and also pointed out there is adequate space for parking in the lot at the park. Commissioner Propst said he still did not feel comfortable with this outcome, and the Recording Secretary suggested he speak directly to members of the Administrative Traffic Committee. Chairman Sorenson said the commission plan of action will bele discussed at the next meeting. ADJOURNMENT There was a commissioner The Brooklyn 9:25 p.m. motion by Commissioner Propst and seconded by Skeels to adjourn the meeting. The motion passed.. Center Park and Recreation Commission adjourned at Chairman 10-27-87 -6- 0