HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987 10-27 PRMMINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
FOR THE CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER IN THE COUNTY OF HENNEPIN
AND THE STATE OF MINNESOTA
REGULAR SESSION
OCTOBER 27, 1987
CITY HALL
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Sorenson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL
Chairman Sorenson, Commissioners Peterson, Propst, Burnes, and
Skeels. Also present were Councilmember Bill Hawes, Director of
Recreation Arnie Mavis, and Recording Secretary Geralyn Barone.
Commissioners Manson and Krefting were excused from this evening's
meeting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 15, 1987
There was a motion by Commissioner Burnes and seconded by
Commissioner Peterson to approve the minutes of the September 15,
1987, Park and Recreation Commission meeting. The motion passed.
FACILITY NEEDS
Chairman Sorenson tabled this item to the next Park and Recreation
commission meeting.
RESOLUTION/ BYLAWS
Chairman Sorenson referred the commission to article VII regarding
authorization to speak on behalf of the commission. Commissioner
Peterson said there is too much ambiguity in this article.
Chairman Sorenson said his problem with this article is that the
commission must first consider and approve any statements, so in
essence, commissioners are prohibited from speaking. Commissioner
Propst asked if anyone was able to prepare an alternative to this
article, and no one responded. Councilmember Hawes suggested
Chairman Sorenson may be reading too much into the article.
Chairman Sorenson responded saying the article says in plain
English that statements must be approved. Councilmember Hawes said
no one will condemn a commissioner for speaking on behalf of the
commission, and the intent in the article is clear. Chairman
Sorenson agreed the intent is clear, but the wording does not say
this.
Commissioner Propst asked if Chairman Sorenson wants members to
feel free to express their individual opinions. Chairman Sorenson
said members have this right regardless. What bothers him is any
statement must be approved by the commission. There was some
discussion on alternative language for the article. Commissioner
Burnes suggested the following language "No member shall speak on
behalf of the commission unless the commission has first discussed
the subject and said speaker is communicating the ideas or issues
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agreed to by the commission." Commissioner Skeels noted th
original intent of the bylaws was to allow members to spew
publicly by giving the position of the commission. Commissioner
Propst suggested the proposed language may be too restrictive.
There was a motion by Commissioner Peterson and seconded by
Commissioner Skeels to recommend to the city council an amendment
to article VII of the advisory commission bylaws as suggested by
commissioner Burnes. The motion passed unanimously. The Recording
Secretary said this item will appear on the November 9, 1987, city
council agenda.
REVIEW OF GENERAL ORDINANCES RELATED DIRECTLY TO PARKS
Chairman Sorenson said he feels the ordinance related to beer and
alcohol in the parks is too restrictive. The Director of
Recreation said he feels there are no problems now and the
ordinance is working well. Chairman Sorenson said because there
have been a few abuses, everyone should not be restricted. He
pointed out a problem with the current ordinance, which says the
director of parks and recreation issues permits, when in fact there
is no longer a director of parks and recreation. Commissioner
Propst asked who the permits are issued to now, and the Director of
Recreation said civic groups which meet certain qualifications are
eligible to obtain permits. Commissioner Propst said there should
not be alcohol in the parks because it is not a good environment
for a park. He feels no one should be able to get a permit and
would be happy if the police enforced the ordinance as it currently0
exists.
Commissioner Peterson said he does not feel it is practical to have
a family obtain a permit to have beer in the park. He said he
cannot see why there should be a requirement except for organized
groups. Commissioner Propst said there can be problems with beer
in the parks. Chairman Sorenson said he would like others besides
civic groups to be -able to get permits, and he would go along with
a compromise of issuing permits to some groups. Commissioner
Skeels wondered if the current ordinance is loosened, under what
basis could the City stop someone from obtaining a permit; he feels
it would be an administrative nightmare for the recreation
department to administer this. The Director of Recreation said
someone would have to be hired just to handle all the issuance of
permits.
Commissioner Skeels said he would not have a problem with
prohibiting alcohol in the parks altogether with no permits issued.
Commissioner Skeels also suggested if the police department is
involved in monitoring and controlling certain events, a permit for
alcohol may be acceptable. Chairman Sorenson said he prefers the
process to allow groups to obtain permits. Commissioner Propst
said he sees problems with this because it would be chaos. He
prefers to limit access of beer to situations where licenses have
been issued and the events are controlled by the police.
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•
Commissioner Burnes asked if a permit system were expanded, what
increased liabilities would the City have. Councilmember Hawes
said there would definitely be increased liability for the City.
The Director of Recreation said the City may have to pay more for
its insurance premiums.
Commissioner Burnes said personally he would like to see beer in
the parks but limit the permits to perhaps one a year for each
applicant. The Director of Recreation said there may be problems
associated with this because individual members of a softball team
could take turns obtaining a permit. Commissioner Peterson said it
is tradition to have beer after softball games, but Commissioner
Skeels said this does not occur in Brooklyn Center anymore. The
Director of Recreation pointed out that plain clothes officers have
been checking softball games, and ball players do get kicked out of
the league if caught drinking. Commissioner Burnes said if a group
is not causing a ruckus, the police department would not bother
them {even if people were drinking. Commissioner Skeels said over
the past few years, most softball players will go to someone's
house to drink beer after a game rather than drink in the park.
Commissioner Peterson asked what the policy is in Minneapolis, and
the Director of Recreation said its permit system is a little more
liberal than Brooklyn Center's. Councilmember Hawes pointed out
the liability insurance issue is a problem that did not exist years
ago.
Commissioner Propst said he would feel comfortable if alcohol were
prohibited completely from the parks. Commissioner Peterson noted
people can find other places to drink beer if they really want to
do so. Councilmember Hawes said if beer is allowed in the parks,
it will not be the only alcoholic beverage consumed and people will
go beyond what is allowed by ordinance. Chairman Sorenson
disagreed with this statement. Councilmember Hawes said he feels
the ordinance is super the way it is and does not think people have
to drink beer in parks. Chairman Sorenson reviewed the memorandum
which discussed the opinions of people who were around at the time
the ordinance passed, and he said he would like to see the permit
system expanded to allow individuals to drink beer in the parks.
Counciimember Hawes reviewed the situation of the time when the
ordinance was first passed, and Chairman Sorenson said that was a
different time period when there were no controls. After further
discussion, Chairman Sorenson suggested this section of the
ordinance be tabled for further discussion at the next meeting.
With regard to section 13-107 of the ordinance, Chairman Sorenson
suggested changing the "director of parks and recreation" to some
other title because the position no longer exists. There was a
motion by Commissioner Skeels and seconded by Commissioner Peterson
to change the "director of parks and recreation" to the "director
of recreation" in section 13-107. The motion passed.
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With regard to section 13-108, Chairman Sorenson asked if the park
and recreation department posts any signs. The Director o*
Recreation said the department does not; the flyers are distributed
by hand. Commissioner Skeels asked what open space refers to, and
Chairman Sorenson said the island on Twin Lake and the area around
Palmer Lake is considered open space. There was a motion by
Commissioner Burnes and seconded by Commissioner Peterson to add
the following phrase to the end of section 13-108: " . . . without
the written permission of the director of recreation." The motion
passed.
There was a motion by Commissioner Skeels and seconded by
commissioner Burnes to change the "director of parks and
recreation" to the "director of recreation" in 13-109. The motion
passed.
With regard to section 13-110, Chairman Sorenson asked if there are
any programs in the parks where camping is done, and the Director
of Recreation said the only time would be when the swimming meet is
held here in the summer. There was a motion by Commissioner Propst
and seconded by Commissioner Burnes to add the following statement
to the end of section 13-110: if . . without the written
permission of the director of recreation." The motion passed.
With regard to section 13-111, Chairman Sorenson asked what the
concern is over allowing golfing in the parks, and the Director of
Recreation said if allowed, there would be a problem with the grass
getting torn and ripped. Commissioner Propst asked if there is any
place for such activity in the City that could be set aside, and
Chairman Sorenson pointed out the new golf course will be a great
practice area.
RECESS
There was a motion by commissioner Skeels and seconded by
commissioner Peterson to recess the Park and Recreation commission
meeting at 8:31 p.m. The motion passed. The commission reconvened
at 8:36 p.m.
REVIEW OF GENERAL ORDINANCES RELATED DIRECTLY TO PARKS (CONTINUED)
The commission discussed section 13-113 regarding control of fires.
Chairman Sorenson said the ordinance does prohibit bringing in
grills, and Councilmember Hawes said this may need clarification.
Chairman Sorenson pointed out that if grills are allowed, a place
is needed to dispose of charcoal. The Director of Recreation said
there are very few permanent grills in the parks. Councilmember
Hawes expressed concern about dumping hot coals in the parks. The
Director of Recreation suggested allowing grills only if the hot
coals are properly disposed, and chairman Sorenson said this would
be difficult to monitor. Commissioner Skeels asked if there would
be any feasible way to provide a place for the coals to be
disposed, and Commissioner Peterson said although this may be
possible, it may not be practical. Commissioner Burnes said people
may throw garbage in with the coals and create a hazard.
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Commissioner Propst said he wants to allow people to picnic in the
park, but would like to leave the ordinance as it is because of the
problems associated with the coals. Councilmember Hawes suggested
the grills either be permitted or prohibited. There was a motion
by Commissioner Peterson and seconded by Commissioner Skeels to
change the wording of section 13-113 to read as follows "No person
shall ignite a fire in any park or open space except in places
provided for such purposes or in portable grills. Persons igniting
a fire shall completely extinguish such fire prior to departing
from the park or open space." The motion passed.
with regard to section 13-115, Chairman Sorenson said if glass
beverage containers are banned in the park, then beer bottles
should also be prohibited. There was a motion by Commissioner
Skeels and seconded by Commissioner Propst to delete the following
section from section 13-115: " . . . except under permit issued by
the Director of Parks and Recreation under section 13-103 hereof."
The motion passed.
In reviewing section 13-117, Commissioner Propst asked where people
would be imprisoned if they violate this ordinance, and the
Director of Recreation said most likely it would be the Hennepin
County workhouse. There was discussion by the commission of the
penalties. There was a motion by Commissioner Propst and seconded
by Commissioner Peterson to change section 13-117 from " . . any
person violating the provisions . . . " to " . . any person
violating any provision . . . it The motion passed.
With regard to section 13-102, Chairman Sorenson noted that
softball games go on past 10 p.m., and the Director of Recreation
said these are considered to be official City business.
Commissioner Burnes said because joggers may be on the trails
before +6 a.m., the commission may want to change the park hours in
the ordinance from 10 p.m. - 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. - 5 a.m. There was
some discussion on the curfew and possible amendments to the
ordinance. Commissioner Propst suggested changing the language to
allow any recreational activity as authorized by the City Manager,
and Chairman Sorenson said this may be too broad. Commissioner
Peterson asked how the existing ordinance is working so far, and
the Director of Recreation said there have been no problems.
Chairman Sorenson suggested this section as well as section 13-103
be further discussed at the next commission meeting. The Recording
Secretary will prepare a draft ordinance amendment including the
changes suggested this evening to be further reviewed at the next
meeting.
OTHER BUSINESS
The Recording Secretary said the City Manager, Director of
Recreation, and a representative of the Little League met to
discuss the problems associated with Lions Park and the Little
League field. The Recording Secretary said the proposal is to
restrict the ages of those using the baseball fields and to
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incorporate a planting plan along the roadway. Commissioner
said three trees have already been planted, which
appreciative of, but he would like to see more.
Propst
he i
Commissioner Burnes said there may be a problem with limiting the
age of those using the baseball fields because parents may want to
practice with their children and would be prohibited from doing so
if there were age restrictions. Commissioner Propst noted at the
last meeting he was not complaining about baseballs landing in his
yard only, but they are also landing in the street. He added it
would be difficult to prohibit certain age groups from using the
fields. Commissioner Peterson said new Commissioner Burnes may not
fully understand the agreement the City made with the Little League
regarding this area and the golf course, so the Director of
Recreation proceeded to review the details of the agreement between
the City and the Little League. This followed by discussion of the
problems associated with setting an age limit for use of the
fields. Commissioner Propst said the Little League may want to
install a higher fence at the field. The Recording Secretary
reviewed the Administrative Traffic Committee action regarding the
request for a "Stop" sign in this area. She noted there is not
sufficient traffic to warrant installation of a sign and also
pointed out there is adequate space for parking in the lot at the
park. Commissioner Propst said he still did not feel comfortable
with this outcome, and the Recording Secretary suggested he speak
directly to members of the Administrative Traffic Committee.
Chairman Sorenson said the commission plan of action will bele
discussed at the next meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
There was a
commissioner
The Brooklyn
9:25 p.m.
motion by Commissioner Propst and seconded by
Skeels to adjourn the meeting. The motion passed..
Center Park and Recreation Commission adjourned at
Chairman
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