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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985 02-19 PRMMINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER IN THE COUNTY OF HENNEPIN AND THE STATE OF MINNESOTA REGULAR SESSION FEBRUARY 19, 1985 CITY HALL CALL TO ORDER The Brooklyn Center Park and Recreation Commission met in regular session and was called to order by Chairman Sorenson at 7:30 p.m. ROLL CALL Chairman Sorenson, Commissioners Bloomstrand, Skeels, Peterson and Manson. Also present were Councilmember Bill Hawes, City Manager Gerald Splinter, Director of Parks and Recreation Gene Hagel, Recording Secretary Tom Bublitz and Mr. Paul Fjare of Brauer and Associates. STAFF PRESENTATION OF GOLF COURSE PROJECT The City Manager noted that the research work on the golf course was in a preliminary stage since the City did not want to spend a great amount of money on the project before public input was received. He emphasized that the project is in a feasibility stage. The City Manager then reviewed the history of the proposal for a golf course at the Lions Park West site. He explained there was a concern over what the potential development in the area could be and noted that apartments or some other type of housing was possible on the site. He explained there was a particular concern since approximately 60% of the property is in the flood plain. He added that any development proposed for the area must consider the flood plain when developing. He then explained that the former owner of the property approached the City regarding purchase of the property and after consideration by the Park and Recreation Commission and City Council the City purchased the land for a possible park use and also to control the flood plain. In summary the reasons for the City purchasing the property was to control the flood plain and also to provide an opportunity to influence development of the parcel since it was in a critical area. He then reviewed the feasibility work which had been done on the project and which had led up to the Park and Recreation Commission establishing this evenings public hearing. The City Manager then reviewed a site map of the area showing the proposed golf course project and pointed out that the project involves relocating the existing Little League fields. He explained that this had been discussed with the Brooklyn Center Little League and that a preliminary plan had been worked out to relocate the fields. He then introduced Mr. Paul Fjare of Brauer and Associates, and explained that Mr. Fjare Is company had prepared the preliminary site plan for the golf course. Mr. Fjare reviewed the golf course plan and noted the preliminary approval by the Little League for the relocation of the existing Little League fields. He explained that with the relocation the fields will have a better north-south orientation and there will be an overall improved control over the ball fields. He then continued his review of the site plan pointing out the proposed location of the clubhouse, putting green and the nine holes of the course. Mr. Fjare then reviewed 2-19-85 -1- the permit process required by the Army Corps of Engineers and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. He explained the Corp was concerned with not harming the flood plain and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was concerned with the preservation of wildlife in the area. He noted that the preliminary plan had received approval from both agencies. The City Manager then briefly reviewed the traffic analysis studies done by the City's Engineering Department and explained that the detailed analysis is available for questions later in the meeting. He then reviewed the proposed financing for the project and noted that the approximate cost is $1 million dollars. He noted there were three possible approaches to financing such a project including revenue bonds, general obligation bonds and internal bonds. He explained that the feasibility study has shown that the project could generally pay for itself within a 15 to 20 year period. He pointed out that one of the problems in external financing is the current poor market for bonds with the interest rates being at a prohibitive level. He explained that if the project is to be approved the staff recommendation is to borrow funds internally from the City's Capital Projects Fund. In summary the City Manager pointed out that the cost estimates along with the revenue projections for the project are quite conservative. He explained the estimates were developed partially by reviewing the actual costs of similar courses in New Hope and Roseville. He explained the course proposed is a Par 3 course and past experience in other cities has shown that such courses attract a significant number of elderly, youth and women golfers. He added that golfers who want the 18 hole long course will of course not use this course. The City Manager stated that should the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the project it would then proceed to the City Council and they would also hold a public hearing on the golf course project. He added that there would be more detail work to be done on the feasibility study should the Park and Recreation Commission act favorably on the project. He explained that if the project is approved the project could begin as early as the fall of 1985 and that the earliest opening would be in 1987. QUESTIONS FROM PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION The Park and Recreation Commission members generally decided to hold their questions until later in the evening to allow the audience an opportunity to speak at the public hearing. Commissioner Bloomstrand did however ask the City Manager what the size of the proposed clubhouse would be. The City Manager explained that the clubhouse is proposed at approximately 2,000 square feet which is somewhere in between the clubhouse sizes at New Hope and Roseville. PUBLIC HEARING Chairmam Sorenson opened the meeting for the purpose of a public hearing on the proposed golf course project and recognized Mr. Larry Propst, 5344 Russell Avenue North. Mr. Propst stated that he believed the golf course proposal was an "idiotic" plan considering a number of factors, including the flood plain and wildlife, in the area. He questioned why the City should go to all the expense of building a golf course when courses are readily available in the area. Also, he stated that he did not think it was efficient to move the Little League fields and that the proposed parking should be put closer to the clubhouse. He added that he cannot understand why the City would want to undertake the project and would like to know if a survey of City residents was taken with regard to the plan. The City Manager stated that a survey was done a number of years ago on Park and Recreation facilities and that golf courses were one of the items mentioned in the survey. He reviewed the parking 2-19-85 -2- philosophy developed in conjunction with the site plan and noted that the goal was to keep the parking off the street. Mr. Propst then stated that he thought the parking should be located in the area now designated for general skating since there is not much skating done in that area anyway. Mr. Propst then expressed a concern that the parking area was too large and that the City should not tear down the existing ball fields given the fact that they would have to be rebuilt. He also noted the negative affect of the project on wildlife in the area. With regard to the project's affect on wildlife the City Manager explained that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service initially rejected the first plan and then accepted a revised plan which allowed for more protection of the wildlife in the area. He then reviewed a transparency of a scale by which the area was rated for wildlife protection. Mr. Propst then expressed his belief that the course would be a maintenance problem due to its location in the flood plain. The City Manager explained that golf courses are often built on this type of land particularly since other uses would not be acceptable in a flood plain. In response to a question from Mr. Larry Lang the City Manager explained that the 100 year flood is a theoretical design level which takes into account that major floods tend to occur approximately every 100 years. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mrs. Jean Messersmith, 5340 Queen Avenue North. Mrs. Messersmith stated that she believes Brooklyn Center is more of a blue collar neighborhood and wondered if it was fair to compare the population to New Hope and Roseville. She expressed a concern about the internal financing of the golf course project especially with regard to the deficit at the Federal level and the potential for that being passed down to the local level. She also expressed a concern about the traffic flow particularly with regard to children in the area. She reviewed the areas existing traffic problem including a blind corner at Lilac Drive, speeding in the area and the general "tangle town" maze of traffic in the area. She then noted that parking in the area is definitely needed particularly for Little League games and added that she believes there may not be enough parking shown on the plan for the golf course and Little League activities. She added that in her opinion she does not see a lot of elderly people using this and also suggested that a needs assessment on the golf course project be undertaken. In response to Mrs. Messersmiths comments the City Manager stated that the City of New Hope is virtually built up in a similar fashion to Brooklyn Center and that it is the thought that this course would parallel the New Hope course in many ways. He explained that there is generally a shortage of golf courses indicated in the northwest area and that he believed New Hope and Roseville are really not that different in population makeup from Brooklyn Center. He explained that it is true the elderly in their 70's and 80's would probably not use the project but the 55 and up age group would more than likely be attracted to a Par 3 golf course. With regard to the cost of the project he explained that there is not much in the area of recreation that can pay for itself completely and cited the example of swimming pools and ice arenas. Golf courses he pointed out, are different situations and can pay for themselve over a period of time. He explained that currently bonds are at a 13% to 14% interest rate which is a prohibitively high rate. He explained the interest on the funds borrowed to build the project would not be lost and that a fair return on the money would be received. He explained this could be undertaken no matter what happens to the deficit at the Fedreal Level. The City Manager then reviewed the traffic counts in the area including the winter time and summer time traffic projections which show a traffic count before and after the proposed golf course. He added that the projects assumed every golfer came to the course in a separate car and that generally golf course traffic is not a peaking type of traffic and is weather sensitive. 2-19-85 -3- Chairman Sorenson recognized a member of the audience who identified himself as living on Ericon Drive, and commented that he did not see the traffic as a problem and added that he was in favor of the golf course project. He inquired of the City Manager as to how the Little League transfer would be accomplished. The City Manager expalined that it would be possible for the Little League to give the deed to the property to the City and the City would grant a long term lease for the facilities to the Little League. Mr. Tom Shinneck, 5324 Oliver Avenue North, president of the National Little League commented that he believed the project was a tremondous deal for the Little League and that the present field is a maintenance problem. He pointed out that the project would provide brand new facilities for both the major and minor leagues. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mr. Tony Miller who stated that he believed the only comparable course in the area was located in Dayton and that he does not think there is a comparable Par 3 in the area. He added that he believes Brooklyn Center needs this golf course. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mrs. Linda Erikksen who stated that she lives on 55th Avenue North between Oliver and Penn. She stated that she believes the information distributed on the golf course could have been done differently since the flyer did not give a location of the proposed course. She expressed a concern that the area at the bottom of the sliding hill would be reduced and that sliding would not work with this distance shortened. She also expressed concern with regard to the accessibility of the pedestrian bridge over Highway 100. The City Manager stated that the plan would assure that no obstacles would be put in to obstruct the sliding hill and that the project should not affect the accessibility to the pedestrian crossing. Mrs. Erikksen then expressed a concern that if the golf course is developed the land would be used by a limited few and not be able to be used by the rest of the residents. The City Manager stated that generally not all recreation facilities are used by all people noting that only certain people play tennis, use nature trails, basketball etc. He then reviewed the area of land and the project area which was left out of the golf course and indicated that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has insisted that as many wild areas as possible be left in the project. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mr. Jerry Sullivan, 61st and Kyle who stated that he is in favor of the golf course project. He stated that he lives next to Kylawn Park which is a wildlife area and indicated that he would be willing to drive to use the golf course so he believed other residents should be able to drive to visit the nature areas in the City. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mr. Lewis Hedlund, 5320 Russell Avenue North who stated that he does not like the traffic situation in the area or the potential parking problem created by relocating the Little League field. He added that he is indifferent to the golf course project but does not like the idea of moving the Little League field. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mr. John Russell who stated that he lives in the 5300 block of Lilac Drive. Mr. Russell asked how high the fence would be in front of his home if the project were built. The City Manager replied that it is the intention to leave as much of the existing growth in the area as possible to act as the screen for residences. He added he believed this screening would provide adequate separation. 0 2-19-85 -4- Chairman Sorenson recognized Mr. Frank Slovak who stated that he resides at 55th and Oliver. Mr. Slovak stated that since the proposed course is only a Par 3 golf course he believed it would be difficult to make a profit on the course, especially if senior citizens are given lower rates which is typical at other golf courses in the area. He added that the City of New Hope has extended some of the fairways on their course but that in this course the fairways could not be lengthened. With regard to notice of the golf course project the City Manager noted that the City Manager's Newsletter contained an article on the golf course project and that articles were also in the Brooklyn Center Post. He added that perhaps the City may rely to heavily on the Post for notification and that they will try to do a better job of notifying the residents in the future. Chairman Sorenson recognized a member of the audience residing at 53rd and Lilac Drive who asked how the project would affect property values in the area. The City Manager explained that the project should not affect values too much and that if a persons backyard is located on a golf course generally this would increase property values. Generally, he pointed out that residents could not count on an increase but also certainly should not expect a decrease in property values. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mr. Del Erikksen residing at 55th Avenue North between Oliver and Penn. Mr. Erikksen stated that he believes the relocation of the Little League field was a "sweetheart deal" and that the two new diamonds and parking lot are being built at taxpayer expense. He stated that he believes the location of the project and the golf course will result in several fairways being wet and that in his opinion the only solution is to ditch and dike the area. He added that he does not 0 believe there is a great demand for golf courses in the area especially considering the blue collar nature of Brooklyn Center. He added it is appalling that funds would be taken from the Capital Projects Fund for an "adult playground" and added that it is inappropriate to shift funds for this type of expense. He stated that he moved to Brooklyn Center because the City had a lot of parks and natural areas and that they are being destroyed by development. He added he believes this area is a jewel of a natural resource. He stated he believes the golf course will be fenced off from the community and that the area. will be lost or off limits to most people for six to eight months of the year and open to only a few so that no one would be able to appreciate it. The City Manager explained that the acquisition of the Little League's property is worth about the same as the improvement received by the Little League. He explained that the Little League is giving the land to the City and that they are not giving something or getting something for nothing. Also, he pointed out that with regard to financing, industrial development revenue bonds are not appropriate to this type of project and that the City's Capital Improvements Fund is designed to be used for projects like this and that these funds have been used for park construction projects in the past. He then noted that most development in an area is contingent upon private initiative and that the City cannot completely control development. Chairman Sorenson recognized Ms. Irnee McCarther, 55th and Oliver who stated that she thinks Brooklyn Center stands out as the "something more" city and complimented the City on handling the public hearing in the manner they are. She added that she likes the idea of a golf course appealing to the middle aged person and that her main concern was the traffic situation, especially the traffic on Logan, meaning those cars turning at 57th onto Logan rather than making a right turn at Warners Hardware. The City Manager stated he agrees that the corner at 57th and Logan and the entrances 2-19-85 -5- to Northbrook are problems and, although this has not been a top priority traffic issue, it should be reviewed. Ms. McCarther also pointed out that the Super America station was proposed to the City as a family business and that in her opinion the current types of magazines sold at the station are not appropriate for a family business. Chairman Sorenson recognized a member of the audience residing at 53rd and Logan who stated that he likes the idea of a golf course in the area, and that the City has spent a lot of money on parks and that he thinks a golf course would be a nice addition. Chairman Sorenson recognized a member of the audience who identified himself as living at 55th and Russell Avenue North, and stated that he believes the traffic problems in the area are the result of teenagers and not problems related to Little League traffic. He added that in over 20 years since he has lived at his home there has never been a flood in the area. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mr. Mike Cant, 53rd pnd Newton Avenue North who stated that he believes golf is also a younger persons sport and that he thinks the course would help the youth in the area. Chairman Sorenson recognized a member of the audience who identified himself as living at 53rd and Logan Avenue North and who stated that he believes the golf course is a good idea and does not think the traffic will be a problem. He added that he believes the young people living in the neighborhood are the ones creating the traffic problem. Chairman Sorenson recognized Mr. Don Lawrence, 63rd and Orchard Avenue North. Mr. 0 Lawrence stated that he believes the golf course would attract a lot of people and in addition golfers also enjoy nature. Chairman Sorenson again recognized Mr. Larry Propst, 53+4 Russell Avenue North. Mr. Propst inquired as to the cost of reconstructing the Little League fields. The City Manager replied the cost would be betwen $75,000 and $80,000 to move the fields including parking. Mr. Propst stated that he does not know what there is to gain by moving the fields and suggested again putting the parking in the general skating area. He then inquired whether the City would survey the community regarding their desires as to a need for a golf course. The City Manager noted that a survey on park facilities had been done in the past but that the Park and Recreation Commission may want to consider this issue. Mr. Propst stated that he believes it would almost be a certainty that the holes on fairways one and two would be flooded. Mr. Paul Fjare of Brauer and Associates explained that five years ago the metropolitan cities experienced two 100 years floods. He explained that the tees and greens would have to be constructed physically higher than the 100 year flood level. He stated that fairways must be used for storage of the 100 year flood level and that the intent would be to elevate the fairways to accomodate the 25 - 50 year flood levels. Mr. Propst then expressed a concern regarding the safety of traffic on Highway 100 with regard to golf balls hitting cars. Mr. Fjare stated that the predominant problem among golfers is a slice and not a hook and this would direct balls away from Highway 100. He explained that the Highway 100 traffic is going with the flow of the 2-19-85 -6- ball but that he is not saying it couldn't happen but it is very unlikely to create any problems with regard to cars. He added that the intent is to achieve control over safety problems by planting additional trees. Chairman Sorenson then recognized Mr. Tom Shinneck who stated that he would like to address a statement made by Mr. Del Erikksen earlier in the meeting. He stated that the Little League fields are not for the exclusive use of the Little League and that the Little League officials do not get paid for their involvement in Little League. He pointed out that the City Manager approached him regarding the fields and stated that the decision was strictly up to the Little League. He added that he believes the gentleman making the statement regarding the arrangements between the City and the Little League should not make statements without knowing the structure of the Little League organization. Mrs. Jean Messersmith inquired as to the populations of New Hope and Roseville in relation to Brooklyn Center. The City Manager replied that Roseville's population is betwen 38,000 and 40,000, New Hope's is approximately 25,000 and Brooklyn Center's population is 31,000. Mrs. Messersmith then encouraged the Commission to do a needs assessment survey of the City with regard to golf courses. She then inquired if any other uses for the area had been considered. The City Manager replied that this area had never been considered for parks such as the Arboretum or Central Park or the Palmer Lake Nature Area. A resident who identified himself as living on Ericon Drive commented that if the golf course is not approved it could be sold to private interests and sold for commercial and industrial development. Chairman Sorenson recognized Ms. Shirley Block who identified herself as living across the street from the clubhouse parking. Ms. Block inquired as to whether liquor would be available in the clubhouse. The City Manager pointed out that the only consideration for any alcoholic beverages is for 3.2 beer to be sold at the clubhouse. He explained that other courses in the area sold 3.2 beer and that it had not been a problem at these courses. Chairman Soreson recognized Mrs. TorkelsonI 53rd and Lilac Drive. Mrs. Torkelson inquired as to who residents should address their concerns to other than the Park and Recreation Commission this evening. The City Manager replied that any concerns should be made in writing to the City Manager's Office and that he would relay these to the Council. He added that he would also notify residents of any Council action on the project. Mrs. Irnee McCarther inquired as to what revenue the 3.2 beer sales would produce. The City Manager replied that the sale of 3.2 beer is not a major revenue producer but is a popular item with golfers. Chairman Sorenson inquired if there was anyone else present who wished to speak at the public hearing. No one requested to speak and he entertained a motion to close the public hearing. There was a motion by Commissioner Skeels and seconded by Commissioner Bloomstrand to close the public hearing on the proposed golf course project. The motion passed unanimously. is Chairman Sorenson commented that the Commission would hold an additional meeting in 2-19-85 -7- March to discuss the project. The City Manager stated that the staff would look at some of the questions raised this evening and respond back to the Commission at their March meeting. The Chairman noted that the next regularly scheduled Park and Recreation Commission meeting is scheduled for March 19. He added that there are problems with Commission members not being able to attend the March 19 meeting and suggested that the next meeting be held on March 26, 1985 at 7:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers. There was a Commission consensus to set the next meeting of the Commission at March 26, 1985 and to discuss the golf course proposal at that meeting. Commissioner Skeels inquired whether there was any possibility that a needs assessment survey could be accomplished. The City Manager stated that a survey could be done but he did not know how valid it would be at this point. ADJOURNMENT There was a motion by Commissioner Manson and seconded by Commissioner Peterson to adjourn the meeting. The motion passed unanimously. The Brooklyn Center Park and Recreation Commission adjourned at 9:45 p.m. Chairman • • 2-19-85 -8-