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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1986 07-30 F CENTRAL NEIGHBORHOOD ADVISORY GROUP MEETING MINUTES 7-30-86 CALL TO ORDER The Central Neighborhood Advisory Group meeting was called to order by Chairman Tony Kuefler at 7:34 p.m. ROLL CALL Central Neighborhood Advisory Group members Tony Kuefler, Harold Uecker, Diane Reem, and Gordy Gunderson; Planning Commission Representative Mike Nelson; and City staff members City Manager Gerald Splinter, Director of Public Works Sy Knapp, Director of Planning and Inspection Ron Warren, and Personnel Coordinator Geralyn Barone. Chairman Kuefler noted that Advisory Group members Robert Cilke and Ronald Turner were absent from this evening's meeting. INTRODUCTIONS Chairman Kuefler introduced himself and briefly reviewed the agenda for this evening's meeting, explaining the purpose of it. Central Neighborhood Advisory Group members and City staff introduced themselves to the neighborhood residents. STATEMENT OF PURPOSE OF MEETING Chairman Kuefler explained that the purpose of the meeting this evening is to understand the issue and give a background and description of the problem, as well as to hear the views of the local residents. STAFF PRESENTATION The City Manager explained the history of the problem, noting that several neighborhood meetings have already been held on this subject. He noted that any suggestions have been listed in the past minutes, and an analysis has been conducted by the Director of Public Works regarding this. The City Manager said there is nothing the City can do to solve all the problems. He added that the Central Neighborhood Advisory Group is being involved to gain input and information from the community. The City Manager noted that the City's study of the problem indicates no traffic capacity problem and not much of an accident problem in the area. However, there is significantly higher traffic levels on 59th Avenue North as compared to other residential streets due to the amount of cut through traffic. He reviewed the traffic counts and noted that the City's Comprehensive Guide Plan indicates that this is an area of concern for cut through traffic. He continued noting that the various options for solving the problem have been reviewed at past meetings, and the viable options suggested by the City are Alternates 1 and 4. Alternates 1 and 4 were reviewed, and the City Manager said if 7 -30 -86 -1- 1 something is done on 59th Avenue North to change the traffic patterns, something will also have to be done on 60th Avenue North and possibly on 62nd Avenue North. He added that even if traffic movement at County Road 10 and Brooklyn Boulevard is improved, it still may not solve all the problems because 59th is still a quick and convenient way to avoid the signal. The City Manager noted that staff considered the option of making changes on a temporary basis, but there has not been much justification for doing this. The Director of Public Works said that when traffic counts were taken at the time of the November neighborhood meeting, the traffic count on 59th Avenue North between Abbott and Beard Avenues North was approximately 1,800 vehicles per day. At the May neighborhood meeting, he did not have the traffic statistics available at his fingertips, and when asked at that meeting for the traffic counts, he estimated that approximately 2,200 cars per day traveled on the street. He apologized for providing this misinformation. The Director of Public Works proceeded to review new traffic counts taken in May, 1986. After reviewing the traffic counts, he reviewed the summary of accidents and the various alternatives available. When reviewing the first alternate, a resident asked what traffic control there would be on southbound Beard Avenue North to eastbound 59th Avenue North. The Director of Public Works responded that a "Stop" sign is in place now, and after reviewing the situation, it is possible that there would be no need for the "Stop" sign. The Director of Public Works continued to review the various options, noting that if either Alternate 1 or 4 is implemented on 59th Avenue North, something would also be needed on 60th Avenue North. He said there is a possibility that if traffic is detoured from 59th and 60th Avenues North, some of it could be rerouted to 62nd Avenue North. However, he stated that staff does not feel this would happen to a significant degree. If it did happen, there would be the possibility of implementing an option of a turnaround on 62nd Avenue North just west of Beard Avenue North. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTS Chairman Kuefler recognized Mr. Phil Brosell, 5835 Abbott Avenue North, who asked why a barricade should be placed on Beard Avenue North, when it should be put all the way to Brooklyn Boulevard. The City Manager responded that if 59th Avenue North is blocked off at Brooklyn Boulevard, it is possible that some provisions will have to be made for the bank. He noted this option of closing 59th at Beard would be the least disruptive of traffic. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mrs. Ann Euteneuer, 5919 Xerxes Avenue North, who stated that she has heard there are not that many on 59th Avenue North complaining about this. She asked what is going to stop the traffic from moving over to 63rd Avenue 7 -30 -86 -2- North. The City Manager noted the perception is that people are cutting through on 59th Avenue North when they are travelling southbound on Brooklyn Boulevard and see the red light at the intersection of Brooklyn Boulevard and County Road 10. As a result, City staff does not think that the short cutters will end up using 63rd Avenue North. Mrs. Euteneuer asked if the traffic will still cut through on 63rd Avenue North, and the City Manager noted that because it is a longer trip for traffic to go this way, he doubts it. Mrs. Euteneuer asked if a traffic count has ever been conducted on Xerxes Avenue North, and the Director of Public Works estimated that approximately 7,000 vehicles per day travel on Xerxes Avenue North. The City Manager pointed out that traffic on Brooklyn Boulevard is approximately 30,000 vehicles per day. Mrs. Euteneuer said that the traffic should not be shoved down Xerxes Avenue North. Chairman Kuefler asked if the traffic would cut over to Xerxes Avenue North from 63rd Avenue North, and the City Manager said that he did not think so. Chairman Kuefler recognized Ms. Jane Alford, representing First Brookdale Bank at 5920 Brooklyn Boulevard. Ms. Alford asked why "Stop" signs are not tried, and the City Manager noted that people living at the intersections where "Stop" signs are installed are not happy will all the noise. He added that drivers end up sliding through the "Stop" signs and squeal away. He added the bank was aware at the time of its construction of the possibility that 59th Avenue North might be closed off to through traffic. Chairman Kuefler recognized Ms. Scharmone Woodford, 5836 Brooklyn Boulevard, who pointed out that when the bank opened there were only three drive through lanes, and now there are six. She asked if this has caused an increase in traffic. The City Manager said the traffic has increased and noted that the bank did indicate their intention when first constructed to expand to the current level of service. Chairman Kuefler asked if City staff ff knows how much traffic is going to the bank, and the Director of Public Works said there is no count available and such a count would have to be done manually. Chairman Kuefler recognized Dr. John Lescault, 6142 Brooklyn Boulevard, who asked how many residents lodged a complaint on 59th Avenue North to initiate this whole project. He added that the people living on 60th Avenue North should have a majority of the input on this subject. The City Manager responded that more than 60 percent of the residents living on 59th Avenue North felt that something should be done. Dr. Lescault noted that he did not see a lot of the residents living on 59th Avenue North at the meeting this evening. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mr. Tom Slupske, 5918 Abbott Avenue North, who pointed out that the major reason for the short cutting traffic on 59th Avenue North is the stop light at 7 -30 -86 -3- Brooklyn Boulevard and County Road 10. He suggested that if "Stop" signs are installed along 59th Avenue North, people would use this route less often. The City Manager stated that other problems will be created in the neighborhood if "Stop" signs are installed. Mr. Slupske noted that if Alternate 4 is implemented, it will affect his street. The City Manager said any diversion systems will discourage traffic through the neighborhood. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mr. Robert May, 3113 Lawrence Road, who asked if the City staff is absolutely convinced that something is needed on 60th Avenue North, or if the City would just try a temporary road block. After some discussion by staff, the Director of Public Works said at least 70 to 80 percent of the 59th Avenue North short cut traffic would move to 60th Avenue North if only 59th is closed. The City Manager noted that if 59th and 60th are closed, it is unlikely that all of the traffic will be transferred to 62nd Avenue North. Mr. May pointed out that there is an extremely high amount of traffic rushing to the bank. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mr. Joe Dobesh, 5937 York Avenue North, who asked what raises all the concerns, as he has no trouble getting onto 59th Avenue North or Brooklyn Boulevard. The City Manager noted that the problem is the short cutting traffic, and this is addressed by the City's Comprehensive Guide Plan. Mr. Dobesh suggested that if traffic is blocked at Northway Drive and Xerxes Avenue North (near St. Paul Book and Stationary), the problem would be eliminated. The City Manager pointed out that much of the traffic is avoiding the traffic signal at County Road 10 and Brooklyn Boulevard. The Director of Public Works stated that the problem is strictly related to the traffic count and the number of cars using 59th Avenue North is higher than what would be expected on a regular residential street. He added that from a traffic capacity standpoint, there is no problem, and there is no unusual amount of accidents in the neighborhood either. The Director of Public Works said the problem is strictly that 59th Avenue North carries more traffic than a normal residential street. He said the question is whether or not the effects of the changes would offset the benefits it would provide. Chairman Kuefler posed the question that if the residents on 59th do not have a problem with the traffic, why should anything be done. Mr. Robert May noted that if the streets are blocked, the residents who live in the neighborhood will have more difficulty getting out of the neighborhood. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mr. Matt Starr, 3301 59th Avenue North, who said he has small children and the traffic is a problem. He said sooner or later there will be more children living in the homes along 59th Avenue North, as well as the addition of another office building on Northway Drive. The City Manager noted that five one -story buildings are to be constructed on Northway Drive west of the F & M Marquette Bank. Chairman i 7 -30 -86 -4- Kuefler asked if the traffic is now going to the office buildings at Brooklyn Boulevard and County Road 10, and the City Manager said it is not. Chairman Kuefler recognized Ms. Janet Schmidt, 5942 Xerxes Avenue North, who asked if barricades are installed, would signs be posted for the dead end streets. The City Manager responded affirmatively, noting that any type of diversion will be posted for and it will take a while for drivers to become accustomed to it. Mr. Robert May asked if the same flow of traffic from three to five years ago will be the same in five years from now, or if it will increase. The City Manager said the City expects that the Xerxes Avenue North count will remain about stable and Brooklyn Boulevard traffic is expected to increase. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mr. Cecil Thayer, 5901 Abbott Avenue North, who noted that this topic is nothing new on 59th Avenue North, because the traffic has been terrifically busy on this street since 1960. Chairman Kuefler asked about a rumor that there will be a freeway access from Xerxes Avenue North, and the City Manager responded that such an access will not be built. He noted that when the access was moved from Humboldt Avenue North to Shingle Creek Parkway, it made it impossible to install an access at Xerxes 0 Avenue North because such an access would be too close to the Shingle Creek Parkway one. The City Manager added that the I -694 bridge over the Mississippi River will be widened and lengthened, and lanes on either side of the River will also be widened. Because of this, the Xerxes Avenue bridge will be widened but will still have one lane across it in each direction. Mrs. Ann Euteneuer said she heard when T.H. 252 is completed, an access to I -694 will be added at Xerxes Avenue North. The City Manager said the state is vacating the property at Xerxes Avenue North, so there will not be an added access to I -694 from Xerxes Avenue North. The Director of Public Works noted that four traffic lanes plus a shoulder will be part of the new I -694 project. Mrs. Ann Euteneuer pointed out that there are no traffic jams and not a lot of accidents on 59th Avenue North, so the City should leave the street as it is. Mr. Cecil Thayer stated that whether or not the street should be closed depends on whether or not you live on 59th Avenue North. Chairman Kuefler asked for a show of hands from those living on 59th Avenue North who would be in favor of the closure, and all of those living on 59th Avenue North present at the meeting raised their hands in favor of the closure. One of the residents requested installation of speed bumps, and the Director of Public Works noted that this is not an effective 7 30 -86 -5- speed control because it is a hazard, nuisance, creates noise, is hard on vehicles, and is a hazard to bicyclists. He added that on most speed bumps, drivers who speed get a better ride over the speed bumps by speeding up rather than slowing down. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mr. Larry Bolton, 3207 62nd Avenue North, who noted that if 59th and 60th Avenues North are blocked off, there will be more traffic diverted to 62nd Avenue North. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mrs. Val Brosell, 5835 Abbott Avenue North, who said that there is no way to know how the traffic will do unless something is tried, and she asked if a vote could be taken. Chairman Kuefler said the Central Neighborhood Advisory Group will review the input and make a recommendation to the Planning Commission, who may then refer it on to the City Council. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mr. Fred Dobesh, 6007 Abbott Avenue North, who said he hates to see the street blocked off, especially in the winter because the streets will not be plowed as quickly. Mr. Phil Brosell said the traffic should be diverted to 63rd Avenue North because it is a County road anyway. Ms. Ann I Britton, 3001 63rd Avenue North said 63rd Avenue North does not need any more traffic than it already has, and requested information on the amount of traffic travelling on 63rd Avenue North. The Director of Public Works said his guesstimate is that 5,000 to 6,000 vehicles per day travel on 63rd Avenue North. Mr. Matt Starr said it is not fair to compare 59th Avenue North to 63rd Avenue North because there are no sidewalks or parking lanes on 59th Avenue North as there are on 63rd Avenue North. Ms. Britton posed the question of whether or not 63rd Avenue North is a residential street, and Mr. Matt Starr responded that his children have to walk in the street rather than on a sidewalk. Ms. Britton pointed out that there are small children living on 63rd Avenue North. Chairman Kuefler asked what the feeling of the City would be for installation of sidewalks, and the City Manager noted that sidewalks are usually installed on thoroughfares and near schools, so 59th Avenue North does not qualify under these general guidelines. Mr. Matt Starr asked if City staff thinks the traffic counts on 59th Avenue North will increase, and the Director of Public Works said there will be some increase but not dramatically. He added that the general traffic within the neighborhood has peaked out, and there will be some additional traffic on Brooklyn Boulevard and County Road 10 because of the new development. The Director of Public Works added that within the next ten years there may be a ten to twenty percent increase in traffic. Mr. Matt Starr asked if this would be approximately 250 to 300 more vehicles, and the Director of Public Works responded affirmatively. Chairman Kuefler recognized Mrs. Susan Bolton, 3207 62nd Avenue 7 -30 -86 -6- North, who asked how long it would be before problems on 62nd Avenue North are acted on if 59th and 60th Avenues North are closed. The City Manager noted that the problems would be dealt with as soon as possible. One resident asked how much time is saved by vehicles short cutting, and the City Manager noted that it is not that much time. Chairman Kuefler closed the public hearing at this time. ADVISORY GROUP DISCUSSION Group member Gordy Gunderson asked if Alternative 1 is selected, whether or not a problem would be created for people coming from the north or the east in the neighborhood to get to the bank, and the City Manager responded affirmatively. Member Gunderson pointed out that anyone living in the neighborhood will have a problem getting to the bank, and the City Manager noted that not one of the options has all positives, and there will be some trade offs necessary. Group member Harold Uecker said at least three people had recommended installation of a temporary divider on Brooklyn Boulevard making it impossible to turn onto 59th Avenue North. The Director of Public Works said if the median is extended on Brooklyn Boulevard, left turns onto 59th Avenue North from southbound Brooklyn Boulevard will no longer be allowed. He added that the westbound afternoon traffic on 59th Avenue North will still be using this street, and the morning traffic would then use 60th Avenue North. The City Manager pointed out general design problems with Brooklyn Boulevard and noted that Hennepin County is now responsible for maintenance of Brooklyn Boulevard. Chairman Kuefler asked if it would be possible to close Northway Drive at Xerxes Avenue North, and the City Manager noted that this will transfer traffic to County Road 10 and Xerxes Avenue North. The Director of Planning and Inspection noted that there are no accesses off of County Road 10 or Xerxes Avenue North for the Brookdale Office Tower building and the apartments in that area. The Director of Public Works noted that some of the traffic would be decreased on 59th Avenue North, but problems would be created at County Road 10 and Northway Drive near the Brookdale Towers. Group member Diane Reem noted that if traffic is cut off of 59th Avenue North, the problem would be transferred to another street. She noted that the turn lane from northbound Xerxes Avenue North to westbound 59th Avenue North encourages traffic to follow this cut through on 59th Avenue North. The City Manager noted that this turn lane was installed to protect those turning at this intersection. He added that there have not been any changes in the traffic counts before and after adding this turn lane. Chairman Kuefler pointed out that if 59th Avenue North is closed, traffic would increase on Beard Avenue North, and the City Manager said this would be probable. 7 -30 -86 -7- Member Reem asked if the media has been informed of the problems here, and the City Manager responded affirmatively. Member Reem asked if some information could be published in the paper requesting drivers not to use this neighborhood for their short cuts. Chairman Kuefler requested staff to consider the possibility of installing sidewalks on 59th Avenue North. He added that closing off 59th Avenue North does solve some of the problems, but not all. The City Manager said staff can look at the feasibility of the sidewalks by taking pedestrian counts and following the patterns of children going to school. Chairman Kuefler asked what the feeling would be for installation of the sidewalk. Mr. Matt Starr pointed out that there is a lot of cable buried underneath the roadway, and the City Manager said staff would look into this. Member Uecker noted that the sidewalk is not for use by bicycle riders. Member Gunderson said Alternate 4 is the least painful of the Alternates, and Mr. Matt Starr pointed out that there would be a lot of turnarounds with this option. N There was a motion by Member Reem and seconded by Member Uecker to make a recommendation to the Planning Commission that City staff find ways to lessen the traffic without barriers, such as increased media publicity. In addition, staff should look at the feasibility of installation of sidewalks. The motion passed unanimously. The Director of Planning and Inspection noted that this item will appear on the August 28, 1986 Planning Commission agenda. Chairman Kuefler asked if anybody would be notified of this Planning Commission meeting, and the City Manager stated that notices will not be mailed to the area residents. The Central Neighborhood Advisory Group meeting adjourned at 9:10 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Geralyn R. Barone Personnel Coordinator 7 -30 -86 -8-