HomeMy WebLinkAbout1977 07-26 CCM Special Session-City Council Subcommittee MINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF A SUBCOMMITTEE OF
THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER IN
THE COUNTY OF HENNEPIN AND THE STATE OF MINNESOTA
SPECIAL SESSION
JULY 26, 1977
CITY HALL
Call to Order A Subcommittee of the Brooklyn Center City Council met in
special session and was called to order at 8 :03 p.m.
Roll Call Councilman Kuefler and Councilman Lhotka. Also present
were Administrative Assistants Brad Hoffman and Ronald
Warren.
Deliberation of Open Councilman Lhotka stated that this Subcommittee meeting
Forum Format was called to discuss the possibility of instituting an
open forum concept whereby citizens would be given the
opportunity to address the City Council about matters
concerning them. He explained that five written responses
regarding the subject of an open forum have been submitted
thus far from Mayor Cohen, Councilman Britts, Councilman
Fignar, the League of Women Voters and Phyllis Papke.
He further explained that it was his and Councilman Kuefler's
intention to solicit public input on the subject this evening,
to consider further input in the form of other written responses
and then hold another Subcommittee meeting on Wednesday,
August 17, 1977 at 8:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers to
further discuss the matter and possibly develop a proposal
to be considered by the entire City Council.
He next reviewed the procedures to be utilized this evening
for soliciting public input which include: that persons give
their name and address for purposes of the record; that
everyone would be given an opportunity to speak before
recognizing someone a second time; and also that comments
be specifically related to the open forum concept.
Public Hearing Councilman Lhotka recognized Jerry Pedlar, 6113 Quail
Avenue North, who stated that there seems to be a great
deal of apathy among the citizens of Brooklyn Center and
that possibly much of this apathy can be attributed to the
City Council. He stated that it is important that the City
Council, as well as the administration of the City, be
available to the citizens of Brooklyn Center and that citizen
input is sought out. He stated that he favored instituting
an open forum concept.
Dolores Hastings, 5813 Aldrich Avenue North, stated that
she supports the League of Women Voters' points relating
to the institution of an open forum concept. She further
stated that the open forum should be held on the same
night that a City Council meeting is held and should also be
conducted prior to the time the City Council breaks for
coffee during the meeting. She added that it would be
worthwhile to have a person not associated with City
government act as a moderator for the open forum which,
in her opinion, would make people feel freer to comment.
She noted that the League of Women Voters has offered its
services as moderator for an open forum.and suggested that
other organizations might be willing to donate their time to
serve as moderators for an open forum.
-1- 7 -26 -77
Vern Ausen, 2907 O'Henry Road, a former City Councilman,
stated that he had suggested such a concept in his first year
on the City Council but that there was not much interest in
institutin such a concept at that time. He explained that he
has been involved in some development work in Scott County
and that because of that -he has appeared before the Shakopee
City Council on a number of occasions. He explained that in
that community approximately 20 minutes is set aside for
residents to speak on any subject that they feel is within the
prerogatives of their City Council. He added that there are
never less than 15 or 20 people in attendance at Council
meetings, and that there seems to be much interest and a
feeling of participation on the part of the citizens in that
community. He added that he does not favor having a separate
City Council meeting for an open forum, instead the concept
should be instituted during a regular City Council meeting
if it is to achieve the purpose of allowing citizens to say
what is on their mind. He concluded by stating that even
if the open forum is limited to 20 minutes, it would be
beneficial to those wishing to address the City Council.
Fred Albright, 5344 Irving Avenue North, stated that he and
his neighbor were having a lot of problems with juveniles
in their neighborhood and that the police department has
been unable to solve their problems. He explained that
when he has called the police he has received no real
response.
Councilman Lhotka stated that the purpose of this evening's
meeting is to solicit comments on the concept of instituting
an open forum. He stated that he was aware of Mr. Albright's
problem and that hopefully the problem would be rectified.
He inquired of Mr. Albright if he had an opinion regarding
the institution of an open forum. Mr. Albright stated that
he favors such a concept.
Dolores Hastings , 5 813 Aldrich Avenue North, inquired of
the Councilmen as to the nature of the written responses
received thus far regarding the open forum. Councilman
Lhotka responded by reviewing the letters, received. He
stated that some of the suggestions
estions include having an
open forum on a day other than when a City Council
meeting is scheduled such as a Saturday morning; the
suggestion that the open forum be conducted either prior
to a City Council meeting or during a City Council meeting;
that there be time limits both for the individual addressing
the City Council and the total time allotted for the open
forum; that there be a sign -up sheet and that people be
given the opportunity to make comments relative to agenda
items. Councilman Kuefler stated that it has also been
suggested that the open forum concept be formulated in
such a- vvay so that it would not require the City Council
to make a decision regarding a citizen complaint or suggestion
that would be brought to the Council's attention during the
open forum.
Donald Poss , 3212 65th Avenue North, the former city
manager, inquired as to the number of written responses
received regarding the open forum concept. Councilman
Lhotka responded that there were five written responses.
Mr. Poss stated that based on the number of written responses
and the number of persons in attendance at this evening's
meeting it seems that this is an issue of much to do about
nothing. He explained that based on the number of taxpayers
and registered .voters in Brooklyn Center, the response to the
7 -26 -77 -2-
to the open forum concept is very little. He further explained
that the Subcommittee was in essence considering the institu-
tion of a concept that would have a major impact but which is
really a minor issue. He further stated that citizens have
always had an opportunity to express their opinions,- concerns,
or complaints regarding City government by contacting City
Councilmen or City Hall, and that this is an accepted practice.
He pointed out that a City Council meeting should be for the
purpose of conducting the City's business and to the extent
that special interests would use an open forum for whatever
Purpose it would become an intrusion on the City Council's
method for conducting City business. He added that based
on his experience, an open forum would be used primarily by
special interests and that the "silent majority", which makes
up the great portion of taxpayers and voters in the City, would
not use such a forum for expressing their problems. He stated
that an open forum would be utilized by the "mouthy minority
or special interest groups and such a concept would not be
fair to persons that are on the Council's scheduled agenda
because they might well be pre - empted or delayed because
of it. He also pointed out that the topics discussed during
such time could range from international problems to local
problems and that nothing really would be gained that could
not be gained through the normal communications channels
of contacting City officials. He further stated that as city
manager he had recently, at the request of the City Council,,
conducted a survey regarding the use of the open forum type,
concept by other municipalities, and that the results for
the most part, were that they were either abused or unused
and were often a sham. He concluded by stating he doesn't
think the City Council should interrupt its good way of
conducting the City's business for the "mouthy minority" or
special interests.
Mr. Anderson, 5351 Humboldt Avenue North, inquired if
citizens are allowed to come in off the street and make
comments at regular City Council meetings. Councilman
Lhotka responded that under the present format citizens are
not generally permitted to address the Council unless they
are on the agenda. He added that exceptions to this have
to do with public hearings for various Planning Commission
items, assessment hearings, public hearings for ordinances,
or in cases where the Council opens the meeting for purposes
of public inquiry.
Vern Ausen, 2907 O'Henry Road, stated that he agrees with
some of the observations made by Mr. Poss earlier but that
he thinks an open forum, as he has experienced it in some
other communities is germane to City Council business. He
further stated that private citizens do have a number of concerns
and other things that should be expressed directly to the City
Council. He added that if no one utilizes the open forum,
no time would be lost. He explained that there are things
other than personal or special interests that could be brought
to the City'Council's attention utilizing such a concept and
added that even a short period of time is better than nothing
at all, and that he feels it would be productive and should be
given a chance even on a test basis. He noted also that it
is possible that an open forum could get out of hand and must
be conducted properly.
Jerry Pedlar, 6113 Quail Avenue North, stated that he agreed
with a number of points made by Mr. Poss particularly the
one relating to the lack of attendance at public meetings such
as this. He pointed out that the lack of people in attendance
at this meeting is indicative of citizen apathy in Brc oklyn Center
_3_ 7 -26-77
He added that he also agrees with a number of points made by
Mr. Ausen and stated that ,ihe open forum should be given a try.
He further stated that the institution of an open forum should
not interfere in any way with the conduct of City business as
this should be given paramount consideration at a City Council
meeting He spoke further in support of the institution of an
open forum.
Fred Albright, 5344 Irving Avenue North, stated that perhaps a
majority of the people in Brooklyn Center are not aware of what
an agenda is or how to get on it. He added that many citizens
are also not aware of how to make their views known to elected
officials and suggested that there be an education process on
how to get on an agenda or to have an open format so that citizens
can express their problems or concerns to the City Council. He
further stated that he felt he as a citizen of Brooklyn Center, was
the City's business and that the City Council should be concerned
about his problems and opinions. He noted the comments relating
to citizen apathy and stated that politicians are apathetic as well
and that what has been described as citizen apathy might not be
apathy but rather ignorance. He concluded by stating that an
open forum would be a good educational thing for the community.
Dean DeSmith, 2701 - 65th Avenue North, expressed the opinion
that the method for notifying people of various meetings is not
very good and that many perhaps do not know what is going on.
He stated that if an open forum concept is instituted, specific
rules should be developed for conducting it.
Dolores Hastings, 5813 Aldrich Avenue North, stated that she
has been on the Council agenda but complained that her topic
usually is at the end of the agenda which could be very late
on a Monday evening. She stated that she is in favor of the
open forum and suggested that people call in ahead of time
so that they can speak at the open forum and that the open
forum be conducted early in the City Council meeting or at a
specific time. She also suggested that there be a sign -up
sheet available at the City Hall prior to the Council meeting
so that persons could sign up to speak at the open forum.
She added that a priority should be established whereby ;
persons calling in advance requesting to be on the open
forum be given first chance to address the Council before
persons signing up the evening of the Council meeting.
She further stated that it would not be necessary that the
City Council respond or reply to various concerns or opinions
expressed during the open forum. She concluded her remarks
by stating that people are often afraid. to call up City Hall
or to call City Councilmen individually and that the open
forum would give these. people an opportunity to address the
City Council.
Donald Poss, 3212 - 65th Avenue North, assured Mrs. Hastings'
that there are people who aren't afraid to call City Hall. He
stated that those that are afraid in all likelihood would not
come to City Council meetings to utilize the open forum and
express their problems, opinions, or concerns before a
tribunal. He added that while he was city -manager typically
people calling in advance requesting to be on the agenda to
make various announcements, etc. would be placed on the
agenda at an early time. He further stated that the institution
of an open forum should in no way interfere or interrupt the
City's regularly scheduled business that must be conducted.
on the evening of a City Council meeting. He commented
that he feels there 'is no real problem for people to communicate
7 -26 -77 -4-
with City officials or for people to get placed on the Council
agenda if they have legitimate business .and, therefore, he
sees no pressing need for an open forum. He added that if
an open forum is utilized by the City Council, it should be
done at a time prior to the regular starting time for the City
Council meeting and not during a regular scheduled meeting
or perhaps on a day when the City Council i's not scheduled
for a regular Council meeting such as a Saturday which would
give more citizens an opportunity to address their City Council.
Vincent Tubman, 6425 Girard Avenue North, stated that people
need the opportunity to express themselves not only to individ-
ual Councilmen but to the City Council as a whole. He
commented that he felt Councilmen would like to get citizen
opinions especially if a hot issue is before the City Council.
He noted that an open forum would provide such an opportunity
to the City Council. He added that if there are no hot issues
or items before the Council, there would probably not be many
people in attendance to utilize the open forum. He stated
that he does not favor having an open forum on a day other
than when a City Council meeting is scheduled and added
that he does not favor requiring people to call in advance
stating what it is they wish to say during an open forum
because this would give an unfair advantage to the City
Council or the City administration to rebut things that might
be brought up at the open forum. He stated that there would
be no reason why the City Council would have to respond to
an individual's concern or problem at the open forum. Mr.
Tubman stated that a number of points have been made regard-
ing an open forum being an interruption of City business. He
noted that the Council regularly has a break midway through
its regular meeting and that this too is an interruption of
City business which is no worse than what an open forum
would be. He concluded his remarks by stating that the
issue is really one of "democracy vs. efficiency" and
commented that efficiency is nice but so is democracy.
Mr. Anderson, 5351 Humboldt Avenue North, stated that he
understands the concerns for not interrupting City business
but added that a great deal of City business is routine business.
He further stated that he favors allocating one -half hour to an
open fourm which would give citizens an opportunity to voice
their concerns regarding any new, nonroutine, business.
Councilman Lhotka inquired if anyone else wished to be
heard. There being none the public hearing was closed.
Councilman Lhotka reported that both he and Councilman
Kuefler would continue to accept both oral and written comments
regarding the possible institution of an open forum between
now and the August 17 meeting. He explained that comments
could be directed to either himself or Councilman Kuefler at
their homes or at City Hall.
Adjournment The special City Council Subcommittee meeting adjourned at
8:58 P.M.
Secretary .
-5- 7 -26 -77