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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003-005 - 5024 France Ave FULL PACKETDate Received City of Brooklyn Center Planning Commission Application Application No. Address/Street Location of Property Please Print Clearly or TvnP Legal Description of Property -",,e li a "-atZd C'a-'V ve Owner ey- Address SO4)`4 '�rY0.hc�e AV?- . Applicant Address 3 5a ywtKrve'z+a-. `, Type of Request: 0 Rezoning Sty E, JN j Variance TSubdivision Approval Fol Description of Request: Other: �61tv1 sc er-, _ Ph�1one o. Ce-I , aPhone No. (✓G51 — d-q 1 `" 5,fqq �► .�, I/In n S Sc a Special Use Permit Site 9. Building Plan Approval Application Fee $ A 1,0. `"J Acct No. 10100-4403 Receipt No. The applicant requests processing of this application and agrees to pay to the City of Brooklyn Center, within fifteen (15) days after mailing or delivery of the billing statement, the victual costs incurred by the City for Engineering, Planning and Legal expenses reasonably and necessarily required by the City for the processing of the application. Such costs will be in addition to the application fee described herein. Withdrawal of the application will not relieve the applicant of the obligation to pay costs incurred prior to withdrawal. I.,I°5h'e U ned i /J�" 0-1 (�fi- Applicant (Please Print) Applicant's Signature PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION Dates of P. C. Consideration: �5 Approved Denied this l . S, day of subject to the following conditions: Chairmen -------------------------------------------------------•----------------- CITV C 01INCH nr_TIOI Dates of Council Consideration: Approved Denied this _r2f2day of -f 20 , with the following utem CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER 6301 Shingle Creek Parkway Brooklyn Center, MN 55430 PROCEDURES AND REQUIREMENTS FOR FILING APPLICATION FOR SITE AND BUILDING PLAN APPROVAL Prior to submission of an application for plan review and approval, prospective applicants should arrange an informational meeting with the Planning Staff to discuss preliminary plans and to become familiarized with applicable ordinance and policy provisions. Four (4) copies of the following documents and information will be submitted, a_t least 14 dao s prior to the date of the regular Commission meeting, concurrent with filing the application (required documents must be consistent with ordinance and policy provisions before an application may be accepted): 1. A certified site survey drawing by a registered engineer or land surveyor showing pertinent existing condition, accurately dimensioned. 2. *An accurately scaled and dimensioned site plan indicating: a) parking layouts and access provisions, including calculation of ordinance parking requirements; b) designations and locations of all proposed buildings and required setback lines; c) fences, walls or other screening, including heights and type of material; d) outside lighting provisions, type and location (foot candle strength at property line must be calculated); e) curbing (B612 curb and gutter is required). Indicate radius measurements; f) building information, including: gross floor area, type of construction and occupancy classification. 3. *A landscape plan showing areas to be sodded or seeded, quantity, location, size and species of trees and shrubbery. (Note: Underground irrigation is required in all landscaped areas in commercial and industrial districts. Plans must be so noted.) 4. *Building floor plans, elevations, sections and specifications, including materials proposed. 5. *Existing and proposed land elevations, drainage provisions, and utility provisions, including the diameters of utility lines. 6. Additional drawings, plans or information deemed necessary by the Secretary. *Must be prepared by a registered architect or person registered with the State Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers, Landscape Architects and Land Surveyors, and said drawings/plans will be so certified. NOTE: Upon approval of plans by the Council and prior to issuance of permits, a Performance Agreement as to approved site improvements and a supporting financial guarantee, in an amount to be determined by the City, are required. Acceptable financial instruments include cash escrow; certificate of deposit; and performance bond. Copies of the Zoning Ordinance may be obtained from the Administrative Office. Questions should be directed to the Planning and Zoning Specialist at 763-569-3330. Procedures & Requirements for Filing Application for Site & Bldg Plan Approval Revised 3-01 City of Brooklyn Center A Millennium Community June 9, 2003 Ms. Leslie O'Neill KPM Properties O'Neil Construction 332 Minnesota Street, Suite E-1319 St. Paul, MN 55101 Dear Ms. O'Neill: This letter is to inform you of the action taken regarding Planning Commission Application No. 2003-005. Enclosed is an excerpt from the minutes of the Planning Commission meeting, the City Council meeting and the Planning Commission Information Sheet pertaining to your application for Preliminary Plat Approval. If you have questions or comments regarding this matter, please contact me. Sincerely, Ronald A. Warren Planning Commission Secretary RAW:rsc Enclosures CC: File No. 2003-005 6301 Shingle Creek Parkway Brooklyn Center, MN 55430-2199 City Hall & TDD Number (763) 569-3300 FAX (763) 569-3494 www.cityolbrooklyncenter.org Recreation and Community Center Phone & TDD Number (763) 569-3400 FAX (763) 569-3434 MINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER IN THE COUNTY OF HENNEPIN AND THE STATE OF MINNESOTA REGULAR SESSION MAY 15, 2003 CALL TO ORDER The Planning Commission meeting was called to order by Chair Willson at 7:30 p.m. ROLL CALL Chair Tim Willson, Commissioners Graydon Boeck, Rex Newman, and Dianne Reem were present. Also present were Mayor Myrna Kragness, Secretary to the Planning Commission/Planning and Zoning Specialist Ronald Warren, and Planning Commission Recording Secretary Rebecca Crass. Stephen Erdmann, Sean Rahn and John Whitehead were absent and excused. APPROVAL OF MINUTES — MAY 1, 2003 There was a motion by Commissioner Newman, seconded by Commissioner Reem, to approve the minutes of the May 1, 2003 meeting as submitted. The motion passed unanimously. CHAIR'S EXPLANATION Chair Willson explained the Planning Commission's role as an advisory body. One of the Commission's functions is to hold public hearings. In the matters concerned in these hearings, the Commission makes recommendations to the City Council. The City Council makes all final decisions in these matters. APPLICATION NO 2003-005 KPM PROPERTIES, INC. AND O'NEILL CONSTRUCTION Chair Willson introduced Application No. 2003-005, a request from KPM Properties, Inc. and O'Neill Construction, for Preliminary Plat approval to subdivide the lot at 5024 France Avenue North into two lots. The property in question is zoned R-1 (One Family Residence). Mr. Warren presented the staff report using overhead plan reductions for Application No. 2003- 005 consisting of a preliminary plat, which is to be known as O'Neill's Addition, that would divide a single lot into two buildable lots. The newly created lot (Lot 1) would contain a garage only, however, it is proposed for development in the near future with a single family home. (See Planning Commission Information Sheet for Application No. 2003-005 dated 5-15-03 and the Director of Public Works' memo dated 5-9-03, attached.) Mr. Warren stated that the Zoning Ordinance allows a garage only as an accessory building to a principal building. He added that at the time the final plat is filed, it is recommended that the applicant either have made application for a building permit to construct a single family home or have executed an agreement with the City and posted a financial guarantee to assure that the Page 1 5-15-03 garage is removed within at least one year if no single family home is constructed. He added that the garage couldn't be left indefinitely without a principal building being constructed. PUBLIC HEARING — APPLICATION NO. 2003-005 There was a motion by Commissioner Boeck, seconded by Commissioner Newman, to open the public hearing on Application No. 2003-005, at 7:43 p.m. The motion passed unanimously. Chair Willson called for comments from the public. Dan O'Neill, representing the applicant, introduced himself and summarized his proposal to replat the property in order to create an additional lot and to build a new single family home on the newly created lot. Commissioner Newman asked the applicant what type house was proposed to be built. Mr. O'Neill stated that their plans are to build a home that blends in with others in the area. Mr. O'Neill asked for clarification on the 5 ft. easement that was recommended by the City Engineer. Mr. Warren explained that the drainage and utility easement has been suggested by the City Engineer to be placed along the north property line of the proposed Lot 1. No other persons from the public appeared before the Commission during the public hearing on Application No. 2003-005. CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING There was a motion by Commissioner Reem, seconded by Commissioner Newman, to close the public hearing on Application No. 2003-005, at 7:48 p.m. The motion passed unanimously. Commissioner Newman asked to amend the last sentence of Condition No. 3 to read " In no event shall there be an accessory building on the proposed Lot 1 beyond one year following the filing of the final plat unless there is a properly constructed single family home on said lot." It was the consensus of the Commission members to make this change to the conditions. The Chair called for further discussion or questions from the Commissioners. The Commissioners interposed no objections to approval of the Application. ACTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF APPLICATION NO. 2003-005 - KPM PROPERTIES INC. AND O'NEILL CONSTRUCTION There was a motion by Commissioner Boeck, seconded by Commissioner Newman, to recommend to the City Council that it approve Application No. 2003-005, submitted by KPM Properties, Inc. and O'Neill Construction for Preliminary Plat Approval to subdivide the lot at 5024 France Avenue North into two lots subject to the following conditions: 1. The final plat is subject to review and approval by the City Engineer. 2. The final plat is subject to the provisions of Chapter 15 of the City Ordinances. Page 2 5-15-03 3. Prior to the, release of the final plat, the applicant shall have either made application for a building permit to construct a single family home on the proposed Lot 1 or executed a performance agreement and posted an appropriate financial guarantee to assure the removal of the garage on the proposed Lot 1 within one year. In no event shall there be an accessory building on the proposed Lot 1 beyond one year following the filing of the final plat unless there is a properly constructed single family home on said lot. 4. The Final Plat shall be modified to show a 5 ft. wide drainage and utility easement along the north property line of the proposed Lot 1, as recommended by the City Engineer. Voting in favor: Chair Willson, Commissioners Boeck, Newman, and Reem. The motion passed unanimously. The City Council will consider the application at its May 27, 2003 meeting. The applicant must be present. Major changes to the application as reviewed by the Planning Commission will require that the application be returned to the Commission for reconsideration APPLICATION NO. 2003-006 RTM RESTAURANT GROUP Chair Willson introduced Application No. 2003-006, a request from RTM Restaurant Group for a Special Use Permit and Site and Building Plan approval to construct a 3,286 sq. ft., 80 seat Arby's restaurant on the lot located at the southeast corner of 55t' Avenue North and Brooklyn Boulevard (5444 Brooklyn Boulevard). Mr. Warren presented the staff report describing the location of the property and the proposal. (See Planning Commission Information Sheet dated 5-15-03 for Application No. 2003-006 and the Director of Public Works' memo dated 5-9-03, attached.) The property under consideration is zoned C-2 (Commerce). Convenience food restaurants such as this are special uses in the C-2 zoning district. The Commissioners inquired about storm water run off and water and sewer service lines as shown on the plans submitted. Mr. Warren explained that the applicant will be required to submit a final set of plans showing changes consistent with the conditions of approval and the Engineer's comments related to these issues. PUBLIC HEARING — APPLICATION NO.2003-006 There was a motion by Commissioner Newman, seconded by Commissioner Boeck, to open the public hearing on Application No. 2003-006 at 8:20 p.m. The motion passed unanimously. Chair Willson called for comments from the public. Jon Bogart, Bogart Pederson & Associates, representing RTM Restaurant Group, introduced himself and the architect, Kent Doble. Mr. Bogart addressed the concerns that the Commissioners had regarding storm water run off and water and sewer service. Mr. Doble also described the height and exterior appearance of the building. ' Page 3 5-15-03 ORDINANCE NO.2003-05 Councilmember Carmody introduced the following ordinance and moved its adoption with the amendment of 85 percent to be made to Section 23-1902 (2) to replace 90 percent: AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTIONS 11-717 AND 23-1902 OF THE BROOKLYN CENTER CODE OF ORDINANCES, RELATING TO THE CONDUCT OF CHARITABLE GAMBLING IN THE CITY The motion for the adoption of the foregoing ordinance was duly seconded by Councilmember Lasman. Motion passed unanimously. 10. PLANNING COMMISSION ITEMS 10a. PLANNING COMMISSION APPLICATION NO.2003-005 SUBMITTED BY KPM PROPERTIES, INC. & O'NEILL CONSTRUCTION. REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL TO SUBDIVIDE THE LOT AT 5024 FRANCE AVENUE NORTH INTO TWO LOTS. THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION AT ITS MAY 15, 2003 MEETING. Planning and Zoning Specialist Ron Warren outlined Planning Commission Application No. 2003- 005 submitted by KPM Properties, Inc. and O'Neill Construction requesting for preliminary plat approval to subdivide the lot at 5024 France Avenue North into two lots. The Planning Commission noted one point of concern with the garage on the northerly lot. The Zoning Ordinance allows garages only as necessary buildings to a principal building, in this case a single-family home. No single-family home would exist on this lot when it is created. Mr. Warren informed that it is the intent of the applicant to eventually build a single-family home on the newly created lot. When the final plat is filed the applicant shall have either made application for a building permit to construct a single-family home on the proposed lot or executed a performance agreement and posted an appropriate financial guarantee to assure the removal of the garage on the proposed lot within a year. Councilmember Peppe questioned how this one-year timeframe would be monitored. Mr. McCauley responded that the Community Development Department would monitor the matter. Mr. Warren informed the Council that the applicants were present if the Council had any questions and that the Planning Commission recommended approval of Planning Commission Application No. 2003-005 subject to the following conditions: The final plat is subject to review and approval by the City Engineer. 2. The final plat is subject to the provisions of Chapter 15 of the City Ordinances. 05/27/03 -7- DRAFT 3. Prior to the, release of the final plat, the applicant shall have either made application for a building permit to construct a single-family home on the proposed Lot 1 or executed a performance agreement and posted an appropriate financial guarantee to assure the removal of the garage on the proposed Lot 1 within one year. In no event shall there be an accessory building on the proposed Lot 1 beyond one year following the filing of the final plat unless there is a properly constructed single family home on said lot. 4. The Final Plat shall be modified to show a 5 ft. wide drainage and utility easement along the north property line of the proposed Lot 1, as recommended by the City Engineer. A motion by Councilmember Lasman, seconded by Councilmember Peppe to approve Planning Commission Application No. 2003-005 subject to the above mentioned conditions recommended by the Planning Commission. Motion passed unanimously. 10b. PLANNING COMMISSION APPLICATION NO.2003-006 SUBMITTED BY RTM RESTAURANT GROUP. REQUEST FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND SITE AND BUILDING PLAN APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT AN 80 SEAT, 3,286 SQ. FT. ARBY'S RESTAURANT WITH A DRIVE -UP WINDOW AT 5444 BROOKLYN BOULEVARD. THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION AT ITS MAY 15, 2003 MEETING. Mr. Warren outlined Planning Commission Application No. 2003-006 submitted by RTM Restaurant Group requesting for a special use permit and site and building plan approval to construct an Arby's Restaurant with a drive -up window at 5444 Brooklyn Boulevard. The Planning Commission recommended approval of Planning Commission Application No. 2003-006 subject to the following conditions: 1. The building plans are subject to review and approval by the Building Official with respect to applicable codes prior to the issuance of permits. 2. Grading, drainage, utility and erosion control plans are subject to review and approval by the City Engineer prior to the issuance of permits. 3. A site performance agreement and supporting financial guarantee in an amount to be determined based on cost estimates shall be submitted prior to the issuance ofpermits to assure the completion of site improvements. 4. Any outside trash disposal facilities and rooftop or on ground mechanical equipment shall be appropriately screened from view. 05/27/03 -8- DRAFT Application Filed on 4-24-03 City Council Action Should Be Taken By 6-23-03 (60 Days) Planning Commission Information Sheet Application No. 2003-005 Applicant: KPM Properties, Inc. and O'Neill Construction Location: 5024 France Avenue North Request: Preliminary Plat The applicant, KPM Properties and O'Neill Construction, is seeking Preliminary Plat approval to subdivide the lot at 5024 France Avenue North into two lots. The property in question is zoned R-1 and is located on the east side of France Avenue North, between 50th and 5 1 " Avenues North. It is surrounded on the north, east and south by single family residences and on the west by France Avenue North, with a single family residence on the opposite side of the street. The proposed plat which is to be known as O'Neill's Addition currently has a metes and bounds description and would be divided into two buildable lots (Lots 1 and 2). The southerly lot (proposed Lot 2) would be 74.64 feet wide, 133.10 feet deep and 10,078 sq. ft. (.2313 acres) in area. It would contain a single family home, a single car garage and a 144 sq. ft. screen porch to the rear of the lot. The northerly lot (proposed Lot 1) would be 75.04 feet wide, 133.10 feet deep, and 9,833 sq. ft. (.2257 acres) in area and would contain a 738.84 sq. ft. double garage. This lot is proposed for development in the near future with a single family home. The Zoning Ordinance requires single family interior lots to be a minimum of 75 feet wide at the front building setback line and 9,500 sq. ft. in area. The proposed lots meet these standards. The structures on the lots meet the minimum building setback requirements from the proposed front, side and rear lot lines. The house and garage on the proposed Lot 2, however, are less than 6 feet apart at one point. This is a pre-existing, non -conforming situation, which is not affected by the proposed division and can continue. The proposed division does not create or aggravate this situation. It should be noted that the property line separating the proposed Lots 1 and 2 is not a straight line. It jogs slightly at a point 52.47 feet east of the France Avenue property line. The purpose of this property line jog is to meet the minimum side interior building setback requirement for the two accessory buildings. A minimum 3 ft. setback is required from the interior lot line for these structures. A chain link fence is shown extending from the northeast corner of the single car garage to the rear property line. Although it is not required that fences be on or near property lines, it might be beneficial to move this fence closer to the proposed new property line separating the lots. We would recommend that it be within 6 inches of the lot line if it is moved. A point of concern is the garage on the proposed Lot 1. The Zoning Ordinance allows garages only as accessory buildings to a principal building, in this case a single family home. No single 5-15-03 Page 1 family home would exist on this lot when it is created. It is the applicant's intent to eventually build a single family home on the newly created Lot 1. Such a home would have to have ground coverage equal to or larger than the ground coverage of the garage. At the time the applicant files the final plat, we would recommend that they either have made application for a building permit to construct a single family home or have executed an agreement with the City, and posted a financial guarantee to assure, that the garage is removed or demolished within at least one year. It should be clearly understood that the garage cannot be left indefinitely on the lot without a principal building being constructed. The preliminary plat shows a proposed 5 ft. wide drainage and utility easement along the rear property line of the two lots. Sanitary sewer and water are in the France Avenue North right of way and serve the house on the proposed Lot 2. Sanitary sewer is shown stubbed to the property line for the proposed Lot 1. The Director of Public Works/City Engineer is reviewing the proposed subdivision and will be submitting his written comments for the Planning Commission's review. A public hearing has been scheduled for this preliminary plat application and notices of the Planning Commission's consideration have been published in the Brooklyn Center Sun/Post. This preliminary plat appears to be in order and approval is recommended subject to at least the following conditions: 1. The final plat is subject to review and approval by the City Engineer. 2. The final plat is subject to the provisions of Chapter 15 of the City Ordinances. 3. Prior to the release of the final plat, the applicant shall have either made application for a building permit to construct a single family home on the proposed Lot 1 or executed a performance agreement and posted an appropriate financial guarantee to assure the removal of the garage on the proposed Lot 1 within one year. In no event shall there be an accessory building on the proposed Lot 1 within one year following the filing of the final plat unless there is a properly constructed single family home on said lot. 4. The Final Plat shall be modified to show a 5 ft. wide drainage and utility easement along the north property line of the proposed Lot 1, as recommended by the City Engineer. 5-15-03 Page 2 Le_ksL L—UL Prepared by INVOICE NO.65443 LOT SURVEYS COMPANY, INC. SC � 1" _ 30i LAND SURVEYORS • Dwwt.s iron LLm.n+cr,t REGISTERED UNDER THE LAWS OF STATE OF MINNESOTA • 9 D—bw ,re,ee„wd Faer 7601 73rd Avenue North 763-560-3093 Fax No. 580-3522 Minneapolis, Minnesota 55428 $urvrgnrs (6srtifirMts PRELIMINARY PLAT O'NEILLS ADDITION CITY OF BROOKLYN CENTER HENNEPIN COUNTY PREPARED FOR: KPM PROPERTIES INC C/0 PETER MEYERS I Wt— PHONE 651-291-5449 I °i " °Soda rrwe. Ave N I o I qr /+o-1�°I°e 'c-boon I -------J 33 {I Mabee 7� AOPM L ME O• PEI 4AaPiN !so srcr r Rr f e.1 Amr O- ML tar 1/I,¢C. !p 51 ST ANENUE N. I aS 0— a a. 1Aeewbek .� Ei 5037 Eeiq Am N I 588.17. 25"c.N. .. ; . Fie I+o-1g'1'Ne-mil-la.ow7 i aN1A ra a4. y�y 1 ram•---------------- _-______--- --____________________ ; II 'Q 1J3.03_ _ _ _ PROPOSED UTILITY o DRANAGE EASEMENT ........... I fal� .II.Aww «i. ffi a' ft E .......... Q�r 589'05 Ss^� F,a �10g-11e-210rti3-0ale p 7 \, ;SE 52.47 9 n w ....... I� N N88•l � w een r r o ----- I I tom ewKra. r '� S / II o 8 �C .I�� r ese �, ya9ei Q I C5 I e si mum S ON coom e 1 r tt.aaw (�i $ tea 2 llwrr. 51,tw. AAmewN ` i I �0�+ � lu Ors: 5 25 Eenq Ave N # pi0 /ID-•Ile-21-2s-0ole i5 Ri Fd EIo-+1-1Y-003q 1 r = r h Y NIW17' 25"W 133.10 --� I z I : _ s1v1N L 11AEerr ME Ave !/4. 'W Ml AOPM 1.50 nmT Or me SOL" # IAf fEE9 //e. Ar 1/4, Sm. 10 I I 0w Rklwre Be" I I b I I I 3019 Eseq Nw M --------j I� I iI Fe/N1+eia'2+`",ia0+0 �F � N Fk 0lo-lle-zi-13-0043 I EMSTNG LEGAL DESCRIPTION, The East M03 feet of the West 163.03 fast of the North 150.00 feet of the South 483.00 feet of the Northwest Ouster of the Southwest Quarter of the Northeast Ouarter of Section 10. Toeraihq 118. Rage 21. Hennepin County. Wnesoto. PROPOSED LOT AREAS Area of Lot 1 is 9833 soft (0.2257 ones) Area of Lot 2 is 10078 agft (0.2313 acres) Underground utility information from the city of Brooklyn Center records Property zoned ReeidentiaL TM ory eceeer+ts shown we from Plata of record a information IwoviOed by cunt. We hwehy cafNfy that the is a true and conect repeswaalfan of b vwy of the boundove wies of the abdescribed I[ead and the beatian of w biiWdbp end ee" . MDUCJwrwne, if any. from w M sofa Iona Pre,cmd by W za�der •i Ape saAL Sq-d a-i" F. Ancirscn Meet. Re% No.21753 w ta.gwy R. PraeU. Minn Req. No24992 MEMORANDUM DATE: May 9, 2003 TO: Ron Warren, Planning and Zoning Specialist FROM: Todd Blomstrom, Director of Public Works '714"5 SUBJECT: O'Neills Addition — Preliminary Plat The Preliminary Plat for O'Neills Addition was reviewed for engineering and utility issues. The site is located east of France Avenue N. and south of 51St Avenue N. The following comments are provided for your consideration. 1. The Preliminary Plat was forwarded to Hennepin County for review on May 6, 2003. Comments provided by Hennepin County will be forwarded to the Owner. 2. Both of the existing garage buildings are located less than 5 feet from the proposed property line. 3. A 5-foot wide Utility and Drainage Easement shall be added along the north property line of Lot 1. 4. A Utility Connection Fee will be required at the time that water and sanitary sewer connections are completed for Lot 1. 5. Correct the spelling of the word "Avenue" for 51st Avenue N. GADepts\Public Works\Engineering\Development & Planning\O'Neills Addition\Preliminary Plat.doc THIS IS TO INFORM YOU THAT: THE T -44NOWN AS ---------- -art �J ❑ -- ----------- 77. '. i-j. i cefj'�',`t I Y RECOpLjE,� THE REGISTERED LAND SURVEY # ' OUNITY..4jRNZSOT4 ------------------------------ formerly CERP WAS FILED IN THE OFFICE OF THE COUNTY Rk' 94 HENNEPIN COUNTY, MINNESOTA ON ri .(dat�_L _ e 4i�eL — - pr-pury _aL' (signed) (si,&ned) ------